Buff and debuff (both is too strong)

Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (Full Version)

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santonik -> Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 3:34:25)
All buffs and all debuffs is too strong this game. Every Debuff must nerf. Every buffs must be nerf but buffs must be stronger than debuffs. Those buffs/debuffs is not change after delta era. (very little if i remember rigth) It is time fix all buffs/debuffs in omega.omega is different stat than delta. I dont want see - 45 dex (smoke) that is game breaker. Malf/smoke giving hunters luck factors them side.(I dont forgot techmage) Malf is too game breaker i dont want see - over 45 malf. That can destroy enemy defence and attacks too. 1lvl-3lvl shield stop sometimes totally enemys attaks. I dont want see that. Weaken both buffs/debuffs that can be raising more tactic. My english isnt perfect but try understand.

goldslayer1 -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 3:40:24)
quote: That can destroy enemy defence and attacks too. it "destroys" defense because defenses scale by 3-4-5 stats. unlike offense which scales much longer. if defense scaled by 8 like high str/supp does, then -45 would only take 5-6 levels of defenses instead of 11-12 like it does now due to the scaling being low.

spinutto -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 10:09:45)
This is my qoute for another thread. quote: I've said this in another thread. The problem of these str/supp builds is that malfunction/smoke haven't been updated to meet Omega standards. They take too much tech/dex than they are supposed to. The same is true for plasma bolt, it should scale like Fireball as not to abuse dmg, I mean wasn't that what happened to BMs back in Delta? They really need to update all skills to match the new stat system.It's something that should not be ignored. And actually i've been pointing this for a while now, but almost no one seems to care...

Melbourne -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 10:14:23)
If we nerf these attack stats more and more the only thing that will work is 5 focus since nothing will work. Quit calling for nerfs for everything you see. Use assault bot or shields. Learn how to play tactical and counter instead of destroy every other build.

Ranloth -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 10:17:26)
What does Malf/Smoke have to do with Focus 5? AFAIK, both use these skills and I don't see how it'll push everyone towards Focus 5 if ones using it are already Focus 5.. <.< It'd affect everyone, not just certain builds. Shields would be likely to be bumped down a little as well, since they'd be too efficient. Bot or Shield doesn't solve it; 1) Why should I be restricted to a certain Bot? 2) What if I have no Shields (Mercs)/what if my build doesn't use Shields? It's too effective. Just like how Focus is and that one is getting nerfed in this update.

Melbourne -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 10:50:01)
I forgot focus was getting a nerf. If you have no shield then you probably have a strategy around it? As do most builds. And I agree with the restriction on your bit if you have no shields but it certainly helps to have the assault bot in those cases with no shields.

Ranloth -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 10:53:30)
But with lower amount of stats available, and change to HP/EP - 1HP + EP per 1 stat point-, it's limited the amount of available stats. Effectiveness of said debuffs has went up and Intimidate has went down due to diminishing returns on Strength. If Malf + Smoke were to be bumped down a little, it'd be indirect buff to Intimidate because these would be closer in power.

spinutto -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 12:47:58)
@Trans you are absolutely right. @Melbourne you are actually missing the point of this post. These debuffs/skills power is the sames as mid Delta, and have not been updated to the Omega standard. A good example was just after Omega they were vastly OP due to their skills not been updated to Omega. The same thing is accurate now for those Str/Supp TMs/BHs and for some TLMs as well to TM casters and their Delta Plasma bolt and Omega Assimilation. You see now?

Melbourne -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 12:50:41)
Yeah I understood that the entire time. I know what scaling and all that jazz is. I just don't like nerfing. The game is just one big nerf now. Thanks either way though :P

Ranloth -> RE: Buff and debuff (both is too strong) (5/3/2013 13:05:29)
If Smoke/Malf were dealt with prior to Omega - in other words, with the release of it -, there wouldn't be an issue with such nerf because players would understand straight away. On the other hand, if you change it now, they will see it as yet another nerf which is bad (nerfs destroy the game, or so players think). In reality, nerfs in Omega do make the battles longer and with longer battles comes luck which is spread out and its effect is much lower than if it was 3 turn battle. interestingly enough, Smoke + Azrael's Will would also be less efficient thus BHs wouldn't be as powerful - nerf yet a good one for the players We aren't too far off from a decent balance. Neither of the phases were ever balanced because you could abuse in every single one of them. Currently, we need to fix Plasma Bolt and perhaps tone down Criticals (ignoring defence to be lower). Apart from that, Rabble is dealing with blocks and deflections (to make them less game-changing when they occur) and he's promised a buff to Static Charge (CH) which is a buff. Goony has also mentioned that Rage could use re-working and - IIRC - that it will be dealt with at some point, but I'm not sure on that one. Yet that one isn't so bad. The only reason to hate Rage is because of SS + IA builds on TLMs, but Focus nerf is already coming in today's update thus the build won't be classed as OP anymore. And neither should Focus since other builds will be able to catch up with it (in terms of damage).

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