Bot Idea: Hindrance Borg (Formerly Wrestlebot) (Full Version)

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Khalix -> Bot Idea: Hindrance Borg (Formerly Wrestlebot) (5/7/2013 10:22:31)

Well, the name could be left for debate. Meaning it could be changed... For the love of yetis, don't make it some weird strain of yeti.

Anyway, here's what I'm thinking:

Base damage is 16.

1st core is your usual ole' plain attack, since the default name is "Wrestlebot", it could just be an animation where the bot powers up a punch that ends with it kneeling after the punch has been delivered.

2nd core is a counter-bot where the bot will tackle the chosen target's bot, putting both bots on cooldown at 5 focus or debuffing the target bot at 4 or lower. The 2nd core isn't 1-time and it has 4-turn cooldown and a 1-turn warmup. (That way, you can't keep tackling the same bot till' the end of the match)

- If target has bot, 2nd core will deal 85% damage.

The 2nd core is focus-based in that at 5 focus disables both bots.

Effects last 3 turns.

5 Focus: 100% Bot Debuff (Forces both bots into cooldown)
4 " ": 90% Bot Debuff (Target bot can still be used, but will suffer from a severe performance penalty)
3 " ": 80%
2 " ": 70%
1 " ": 60%
0 " ": 50%

Cost is up for the devs.

Comes in vanilla flavors (P and E)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick-Data

Type: Bot (If P)
Base Dmg: 16 (P)
1st Core: Dmg: Tech bonus + 16 + Focus bonus (P) <Blockable>
2nd Core: 1-turn warmup, 4-turn cooldown, reusable
Dmg: (Tech bonus + 16 + Focus bonus) x 0.85 & Forces cooldown of a target's bot or applies debuff. (P) <Damage can be blocked> <Effect cannot be blocked or deflected>

5 Focus: 100% Bot Debuff (Forces both bots into cooldown)
4 " ": 90% Bot Debuff
3 " ": 80%
2 " ": 70%
1 " ": 60%
0 " ": 50%

Of course, just substitute P with E for the energy variant.



Ranloth -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 10:26:26)

2nd core is once per battle, right? Even if the enemy doesn't have a Bot? If yes for both, then I quite like the Bot. It's basically Concussive Shot but for Bots, and works in the same way, yet not an actual counter for a Bot; it puts it into cooldown & has penalty.

Although, I'd say *0.85 damage for the ability (forcing cooldown), just like other cores with effects have. But pretty neat suggestion, wouldn't mind seeing that in-game. :3



Mother1 -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 10:34:44)

Not supported. Having one bot that can counter all the other bots if anything will reduce diversity since everyone who isn't using this bot will become a victim to it. Plus with the nerf to focus that just recently happened bots aren't scoring outrageous damage even with rage.

Plus on another note I already remember the staff saying they didn't want one robot to be able to counter another which is what this robot ability will be able to do.



Ranloth -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 10:38:26)

By putting it into cooldown, you aren't really countering it. You're delaying it if anything, and deal a bit less damage whilst using the ability. You can use something else than the Bot to let the cooldown pass, which is same as using Color Blast and avoiding the use of Strike by relying on weapons or Cores.

You could always give it 50% chance to put into cooldown either core on the Bot - normal attack or its special ability, so you will not be able to use one or the other until the cooldown is down. Just like Concussive Shot which counters all of our skills but not really.



Mother1 -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 10:53:25)

quote:

By putting it into cooldown, you aren't really countering it. You're delaying it if anything, and deal a bit less damage whilst using the ability. You can use something else than the Bot to let the cooldown pass, which is same as using Color Blast and avoiding the use of Strike by relying on weapons or Cores.


If I am waiting to use my bot at the right time for my plan only for this wrestle bot to disable it and I lose before It get's off of cooldown then my bot was completely countered Trans. Plus the bunny bot doesn't affect other bots like this one would.

But on another note this idea has been mentioned quite a few times. Not sure if these 2 links along with this would warrant this idea being added to the FSI.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21256881
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21206819



Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 10:54:04)

4-turn cooldown isn't abusable.

You'll only put both bots, yours and your enemy's to cooldown. And, even if you do get access to your bot after said 3-turn cooldown, you can't tackle the other bot until 1 more turn, giving the opponent's bot an opportunity to use its special.

The warmup for the 2nd core is also there to give another opportunity to use their bots.

--------------------------

Edit: You guys post fast.

Those two threads don't seem that refined. Your argument is also the same.

On an extra note, your argument where you say you intend to wait for the perfect time to use the bot only to be ruined by the wrestlebot is pretty much the same as someone complaining to an EMP grenade that took away a high-end skill.

Tactics.

--------------------------

Edit-Edit: Don't want a double post

1st thread is about something like an overwatch/passive that would automatically counter an enemy bot. This bot disables itself and the target bot and must be activated manually.

2nd thread lacked details and only talked about bot special attacks. Nothing more.



Ranloth -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 11:01:12)

quote:

If I am waiting to use my bot at the right time for my plan only for this wrestle bot to disable it and I lose before It get's off of cooldown then my bot was completely countered Trans. Plus the bunny bot doesn't affect other bots like this one would.

You're waiting to use the Bot at right time. How can your opponent predict that? It's a matter of cooldown here, and that one ranges from 3 to 4 turns. If it was made to disable random Bot core (normal attack or special attack), then you'd still have one to use. Unless you've used special attack - which may be once per battle - then it'll disable the normal attack. Once again, timing.
It was countered, but via a cooldown which isn't fixed to be a whole battle, unlike many other suggestions. But then again, Bot has two cores. Bunny Bot can be countered so it is very similar - you use the ability, players avoid Strike and boom, there you've countered the ability. How? Bad timing.

This is only if it's once per battle. Special effects that cannot be countered - i.e. Poison and Heal can -, they must be once per battle. Not re-useable. Giving the 2nd core a warm-up could also prevent abuse on the first turn.



Mother1 -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 11:10:06)

@ trans

If you look at OP's post he just went and said it was reuseable with a 4 turn cooldown in a more recent post. Also this bot last I checked doesn't disable one core it disables both for 3 turns and is reusable.




Necromantres -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 11:32:24)

but what if for example i use it versus someone with IA...how will it put in cooldown if IA special it's once per battle?

Overall a good ideea.



santonik -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/7/2013 16:54:08)

I like this idea ;Wrestlebot
This giving more tactic.
This game is now many damage bots

My suggestion counter all bot attack hits. few rounds http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21256881
Dont say OP because this can be edit. Say next time what you changed this suggestion.

This wrestle bot .
This is now main purpose here.

2nd core

-If target has no bot, 2nd core will instead deal 110% damage. If target has bot, 2nd core will deal 90% damage.

I changed this this way.

-If target has no bot, 2nd core cant be use. If target has bot, 2nd core will deal 85% damage.

I like more this suggestion edit way.Because this can be find more balance. And others see weakness and strength.
It is easy to complain others suggestion but hard to make new suggestion or edit old suggestion.








Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/10/2013 5:09:41)

Edited to suit Santonik's request.

Though I appreciate your feedback, I find it hard to understand you, Sant.



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 8:05:18)

Wow, this is a great idea. I love this.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 8:40:16)

my fancy bot name suggestion for this bot: filibuster drone/droid or hindrance borg

1st skill core name: jack hammer, drill upper cut, shattering impact

2nd skill core name: circuit jam, short circuit, bot suspension, setback

also that means i like this idea ^^



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 8:46:03)

If you want to make this repeatable, I'd be more inclined to scale it with focus.
This bot at low focus would be a bit too powerful. Nothing crazy, but a bit more than it would need to be.
What i'd actually recommend is something like this:


Effect Length: Equal to cooldown of the bot it is used on
5 Focus: 100% Bot Effectiveness Reduction (Effectively cooling down the bot)
4 Focus: 90% Bot Effectiveness Reduction
3 Focus: 80% Bot Effectiveness Reduction
2 Focus: 70% Bot Effectiveness Reduction
1 Focus: 60% Bot Effectiveness Reduction
0 Focus: 50% Bot Effectiveness Reduction

Thematic: The wrestlebot can overload itself with energy and tackle the enemy bot, shorting some of its circuits.


Obviously i just thought of these numbers somewhat arbitrarily, so the scaling could be changed if necessary.



Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 8:57:03)

Bot effectiveness?

The OP stated that both bots will go into cooldown. Damage would only be 85%.

Can't understand you there.



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 9:27:43)

100% bot effectiveness reduction is identical to cooldown: The bots cores are reduced in power by 100% for a length of time equal to the cooldown.
50% reduces both cores power by half.
The thing is, despite the 85% damage part scaling with focus, this bot as a repeatable with no scaling on the real effect can get a bit out of hand because of other imbalances.
I realize that changin a bot to conform to other imbalances is a bad idea, but based on the last 4 years, the other imbalances are never going to be fixed.

A good example: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/abcboydabc/build4-1_zpsfae617ae.png

Imagine that build with tech and support dropped to base and funnelled into HP combined with bot disabling.



Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 10:56:07)

I still don't get you.

Power as in damage?

---

I'll explain again, bots normally have a cooldown of 3 after their use.
Using the 2nd core will put both bots in cooldown (Like how a yeti uses its 2nd core), in this case, both bots will go into a cooldown of 3 but will place the wrestlebot's 2nd core into a cooldown of 4.

That means that by the time the bot can be used again, it still needs another turn before the 2nd core can be used again- Allowing the enemy's previously disabled bot a chance to use its abilities before the wrestlebot's user decides to use the 2nd core again.

4 turns. Similar to field medic's cooldown time.



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 11:50:23)

I'm not sure why this is confusing... why do you assume power means damage? Power means power.
If your assault bot spec is at 50% power reduction, it's going to deal half damage and only cleanse 32.5% of debuffs if you use it during the effect.
If it's at 100% power reduction, it would deal 0 damage and cleanse 0%.

I also don't get why you're explaining things to me. I never said anything about not understanding what you mean, I understand it perfectly.
I was suggesting a change to the idea because of how powerful it is at low focus due to no scaling.



Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 12:13:27)

Oh, there we go.

Making changes.



Mysterion. -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 12:14:04)

I will say this once, without personal opinions.

The developers confirmed that there will never exist a robot that can counter another robot completely.
quote:

This follows the Assault Bot, reducing someone's buffs by 80% was just too strong of an ability and an absolute counter to
certain builds. It will remain strong (65% is still a pretty hefty reduction), but allows the buff to still have *some* effect.

It no longer affects Thorns because we don't want one bot to be a complete counter to another. This effectively prevented
the Bioborg bot from being useful in any real way

Your robot idea however does this.
Which makes any kind of discussion useless and basically spam (my opinion), as there are multiple other threads with basically the same idea.
Over:
Here.
And here.
And again, here.

Now my personal opinion on this ''idea''.
quote:

No.



Khalix -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 15:44:59)

Thank you for taking the time to shoot this thread out of the sky.

It appears that we were not aware of this. Again, thanks.

------

noun
-irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.
unwanted or intrusive advertising on the Internet:

------

To defend this lovely post, I took the time to 'balance' it in comparison to the unrefined ideas posted in those hyperlinks.

Besides, an opinion doesn't last forever. I'm rooting for a teensy change of heart regardless of how hopeless it is to do so.



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 16:01:01)

Let's take this down to it's true base mechanic: It disables/weakens cores.

You cannot say that this is unacceptable in the game, remember that everything is using the core system now.

Pyro fly disables cores
Concussive shot disables cores
Chomp disables cores
Azrael's will disables cores
Stun disables cores and strike
EP drain disables cores
Debuffs weaken cores (scaling, shields)
Buffs and shields weaken cores (debuffs)
Cleanse weakens a core that was used on you after the fact
Azrael aux weakens a core that was used on your opponent after the fact




Mother1 -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 16:07:52)

@ xendran

that may be so, but it was already said by the staff that they don't want one bot to be able to counter another. If the staff already says they don't want it then no matter how much you try to state otherwise unless they have a change of heart then it isn't going to happen.

Otherwise they would have continued to let the Azreal's borg counter the bio borg when it could do this.



Xendran -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 16:17:34)

Azrael's Borg vs Bio Borg was a hard counter of two specific items. This is not.

This bot is literally just essentially using a superpowered malfunction that only has an impact on your bot.



Mother1 -> RE: Bot Idea: Wrestlebot (5/21/2013 16:27:29)

@ Xendran

The point that I was making was that the staff doesn't want any one robot to be a counter to another whether it is one, two or all of them or in this case one robot's core to be a counter to another robots core.

Plus with none of your examples does it show one robot's core countering another robot's core.




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