Frost Shards and Frost Bite (Full Version)

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liy010 -> Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/17/2013 22:03:32)

Ever since the release of Frost Shards, I have been raging on the inside.

Now, before we go any further, I'd like to take the time to say that this is my own opinion and views on things. As such, I should be free to express these thoughts. You are free to post constructive criticism, however, flaming, insulting and all that will not be accepted.

So, lets take a look.

Frost Bite, a core that was available ONLY to Frost Destroyer Weapons, a weapon that is now Rare.

Does 100% damage.
Steals 15 EP over 3 turns
Can be blocked, dealing minimal damage

Frost Shards, a new core that could be available to any weapon

Does 100% damage.
Steals 15 EP over 3 turns
Can only be DEFECTED, still dealing half damage

Anyone see the problem here? The fact that a Rare, Promotional Core has been severely outclassed by another non-rare core. The comparison isn't even hard, both do the same, and if that wasn't enough, bringing a rare core back into the game, the new one is actually even better than the old.

So what if we had Azreal's Anguish and Will, except with 100% damage instead?
Many people would be upset, no?

I purpose...
-Frost Bite core cannot be blocked, deals full damage (Possibly cannot stack with rage)
-Frost Bite core steals more EP...10 a turn seems too much, so how about 20-ish over 3 turns? Maybe 7 EP a turn?
-Frost bite just does damage and steals EP, all in 1 turn, not DoT for EP (Although this would wreck the uniqueness)
-Frost Shards core does 85% damage

Before you reply, I ask you please look at this from my point of view. If you have ever bought any Promos before, Bionical BattleGear...Azreal...Infernal...How would you feel if a core came that severely outclassed it?



NDB -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 1:17:34)

Yes. Everybody knows already and it's bs.



odsey -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 1:22:55)

I for one have the Bionical Battlegear promo. When the plasma and the meteor core is released for credits, I am dissapointed but I'm happy that the core is a bit weaker.

On topic: The easiest way is to nerf the frost shard core to 85%,just like the Azrael promo.



santonik -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 5:47:41)

@odsey
I think same ways 85%damage to Frost Shards.

Many players replace srike this move.And this is much better than strike manyways.




kosmo -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 8:49:43)

the point here is that frostbite become an active core AFTER it went rare, so if peaple knew that, they woulded probably buy it, cant u relise that frostbite got a so big buff and PLAYERS NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO DECIDE TO BUY AN ACTIVE FROSTBITE!



Ranloth -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 8:54:33)

Good point kosmo. FrostBite was a passive at first, it was never said to be an active skill such as Chairman's Fury was prior to Omega. Furthermore, they are both fine - blocks scale slower than deflections so you should have lower chance to get blocked than deflected (assuming equal Tech and Dex), so it averages out.

Either way, kosmo has brought up fairly good point.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:04:57)

Adding Frost Shards completely ripped off all of us who previously shelled out our hard earned money to buy the Promo. Frostbite wasn't the only Ability that was copied from Promos either.

Here's a couple ideas on how to fix it.

1. Make the FrostBite weapons usable more than once like they were originally designed. At least twice per battle.

or

2. Bring the Frostbite weapons energy drain to -10 per round vs. -5 for the Shards.


I've been reading in other threads that the Developers don't care how we feel and don't listen to us. Prove them wrong.

Previous $50 Promo abilities should trump the newer core's skills that can be had free.









liy010 -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:11:12)

@Kosmo

You could say the same about Jack-O-Fire, Thorn Assault, Curse, and all the other Promo Cores that were passives (With a % chance on each hit) and were changed to actives in Omega

You also cannot control what the staff decides to do, Azreal's Anguish? "Surprise! It now does 85% damage, you bought it thinking it was going to do 100%? Well too bad."

Another point, if it was passive, it could be used more than once per battle, with a low % chance.

So, Frostbite gets a buff...And now let's ruin that Rare Skill Core that we just buffed with a stronger core...Seems Legit

@Trans

While that may be true, there is a skill that adds block chance, available on 2 classes, while there is not one that increases deflect chance.

@Strut my mutt 10 EP per turn would be way too much, even for a rare core. That's a potential high EMP in 3 turns, with damage as well. I suggested 7, I think that's a good amount.
Frost Destroyer wasn't a $50 promo, since you could buy it for about 1000 Varium back then. Still, it's a Rare core, and it should stay a Rare core



Ranloth -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:11:48)

Especially when promo =/= power and neither does Varium = power.

quote:

I've been reading in other threads that the Developers don't care how we feel and don't listen to us. Prove them wrong.

Totally. Then all the recent balance changes weren't totally made due to players' requests. They really don't care about the balance and our feedback there. Totally. You should also read kosmo's post - you paid for passive FrostBite, and then received an active version which is a buff (sorta). Does that mean they cannot make a similar core, ever?

In the long run, this is NOT even a balance issue. More like "I had rare item with rare core and you remade it?! Rip off! We want more power because it was a promo and we paid for it! THE CORE IS SPESHUL FOR US! ONLY US!"... >.>

Paying is NOT an excuse for more power. And neither is rarity. Both are the same, one relies on deflections and other on blocks. One is rare, one is in-game.



liy010 -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:14:04)

quote:

Totally. Then all the recent balance changes weren't totally made due to players' requests. They really don't care about the balance and our feedback there. Totally. You should also read kosmo's post - you paid for passive FrostBite, and then received an active version which is a buff (sorta). Does that mean they cannot make a similar core, ever?


They can, and they already have. Plasma Meteor and Meteor Shower are similar versions of Jack-O-Fire and Thorn Assault. However, these cores were slightly weaker, which, in this case, many could say Frost Shards are stronger



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:22:07)

Agree, the others were weaker versions at 110% vs. 115%. But Frostibite is weaker than Frostshards because it can be blocked vs. deflection. I think 3 x -7 would be perfectly acceptable.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:44:21)

In my opinion, there's a lack of creativity in new releases. So far pretty much all the cores released when Omega started except for concussive shot, azrael's will, and Omega Override were very bland and not at all interesting. Then, the staff repeats the same gimmick when releasing Arborgeddon. Frost shards and azrael's torment are just another example of a lack of creativity, because they mimic previous cores almost exactly.



Ranloth -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 15:45:25)

Block and deflection. Right. Blocks scale slower and deflections scale faster. You'll have lower chance to get Bite blocked than Shard to be deflected. It averages out.

Btw, it's 110% for Meteor, 113% for Jack-o-Fire and 115% for Thorn Assault - why isn't the 2% bothering anyone yet this seems to be a problem? Both rare, one is a promo and one isn't so why get more power if Staff said "Varium is a shortcut" rather than power boost. Fix that before you try 'fixing' FrostBite and Frost Shard. Unless we get an explanation why there's a difference between 3 cores (whilst being the same & the 2% difference between Jack-O-Fire and Thorn), then Bite and Shard are fine since Varium/promo/rare =/= power.

If you get the confirmation that Varium/promo/rare = power, then yes, we can talk about buffing.



liy010 -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/18/2013 20:50:36)

quote:

Block and deflection. Right. Blocks scale slower and deflections scale faster. You'll have lower chance to get Bite blocked than Shard to be deflected. It averages out.


Okay, lets get rid of chance here, Block scales slower, but you lose more damage when blocked, deflects scale faster, lose less damage when blocked. So that's even. But then the problem comes on copying the EXACT same core as a Rare Promo, on Meteors, they were a small % less while for this, it's the exact same.

quote:

Btw, it's 110% for Meteor, 113% for Jack-o-Fire and 115% for Thorn Assault - why isn't the 2% bothering anyone yet this seems to be a problem? Both rare, one is a promo and one isn't so why get more power if Staff said "Varium is a shortcut" rather than power boost. Fix that before you try 'fixing' FrostBite and Frost Shard. Unless we get an explanation why there's a difference between 3 cores (whilst being the same & the 2% difference between Jack-O-Fire and Thorn), then Bite and Shard are fine since Varium/promo/rare =/= power.


Harvest Reaper is seasonal (*According to wiki) and should have a lower % compared to Thorn Assault which was Rare. Also, you and I both know that Varium wasn't a shortcut in Delta...So they did go back on their word.




Sageofpeace -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 7:49:34)

yup now most varuim player are afraid to buy 50$ promos so they could get ripp off a week after,same with the value of it getting thing faster means nothing for active player



Ranloth -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 7:50:11)

But Varium nor Rarity doesn't give power. Delta was Delta, this is Omega so they had a right to change it rather than make exceptions which cause imbalance. No, it shouldn't have lower % because it's seasonal whilst other is promo, mainly because these do not grant additional power. Cores may give you one but it's called unique core over power (so one that doesn't exist, yet).

So unless Jack-O-Fire and Thorn Assault get solved - whether Varium/rare/promo = power + why there's a 2% difference - then Shard and Bite are perfectly fine. But, if Varium means mini buff in power (as seen by 113% and 115% - which should be equal) then we can talk about either buffing FrostBite or nerfing Frost Shard (ideally to deal 85% damage, just like other cores).



Sageofpeace -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 11:05:12)

trans buffing would be better as player wouln't feel ripp off of their spending however we are having a issue with the fact they keep making PROMOS CORE available in game with a different name which is why a lot player are getting mad about this next thing you know they gonna make something similar to arzel will making more player mad isn't bad enough that they are trying to make most of the promos with the exception of The phase promo in to season rare. they level them as rare them next year as season rare that just bad



Xendran -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 11:06:19)

quote:

PROMOS CORE available in game


This is well within the bounds of promotional material.
Spend $50 and get this core that comes out in February 2014 one year early.
It's promoting the core.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 11:24:39)

^ there was no warning about it im sure a lot player could wait i wouln't wasted 50 dollar for a regular weapon



Xendran -> RE: Frost Shards and Frost Bite (5/19/2013 11:29:38)

Yes you would have, because it's more powerful than any other gun at the moment.



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