Increased Armor Points (Full Version)

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King FrostLich -> Increased Armor Points (6/1/2013 13:53:25)

I've been playing with my alt mercenary and he's just level 27 doing a fair amount of wins. I've never bought a single armor for him which means he's using the default basic armor throughout the game. One thing I noticed is that when I enhanced for armor points as a level 27, it reaches a maximum of 7 points Why is the armor cap so low at an 8 level difference? I've also played a level 25 bounty hunter as well for some time and guess what, he can also get 7 armor points which is 3 points less than a level 35. If deadly aim and other certain power skills were being more dominant, why nerf them when armors could have been buffed for higher levels? By now, it should have been +15 in Omega so why is it still at +10?




Passives are going to get a big boot to the face next week which means every class gets the big nerf. Bloodlust, reroute, adrenaline and passive armors are going to be used as shields or for offensive usage. If passive armors are going to get nerfed, that means a rise of power builds to dominate matches so why don't we buff armors as well for this case? Not only is it a problem for stat inflation in higher levels, the gap is so high that having 3 more armor points within just 10 levels time(Level 25 - 35) is RIDICULOUSLY SLOW. That's like simply gaining 12 to 15 points of dexterity or technology without increasing the chance to block or deflect. I say it needs to be buffed as you level up higher. Gaining one small point by 3 levels is just slow progress.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/1/2013 22:05:58)

you are sorta right



ale6300 -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/1/2013 22:29:06)

With passives chaging to actives, Quick kill builds will become more effective and can destroy all others build that dont want to play pure offensive, Supported.



chusen -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 0:30:23)

yeah this will kill strength and support...
SUPPORTED! [:)]



King FrostLich -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 0:55:29)

^This is actually buffing everyone's builds since it's a universal buff.



Xendran -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 1:04:42)

Armor should be level/2. Every other level you get one.

At level 35 you would have +17 on your armor.



chusen -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 2:06:59)

@King FrostLich
just sayin since i dont really like long fights :(
but meh who knows...
supported!
i wanna see how this will turn out :)



Midnightsoul -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 3:45:12)

Supported. This does make me wonder why...



DarkDevil -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 11:13:25)

NOT supported.
for the fact that when defence is increased weapons will also have to get a buff orelse someone with ordinary damage like 12-15 will do less than 10 dmg a turn against another one with ordinary defences and also means that support builds will get a head in the fights after defence s increased due to cricts while they will get their own defence higher so it will cause the superiority of armours and the nerfing of weapons and the buffing of cricts.



Stabilis -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 11:58:32)

^

This is because Dexterity and Technology improve faster than Strength and Support. If they improved at the same slope, then King's suggestion to buff Armor would be magnificent.



King FrostLich -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 12:41:58)

quote:

NOT supported.
for the fact that when defence is increased weapons will also have to get a buff orelse someone with ordinary damage like 12-15 will do less than 10 dmg a turn against another one with ordinary defences and also means that support builds will get a head in the fights after defence s increased due to cricts while they will get their own defence higher so it will cause the superiority of armours and the nerfing of weapons and the buffing of cricts.



How is it 10 damage less when it will turn to +15 points from +10? I've been observing that even at average defenses, people always hit 17-22 damage at average to me and that's 30+ defenses on my 82 dexterity and 86 technology(add armor) build. Crits get slightly weakened because defenses have been increased and this is a universal buff. Classes with debuffing skills such as smokescreen and malfunction already hurt alot even worse if they have the azrael aux.



toopygoo -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 13:05:11)

do not support for the sake of tank classes.

as everyone defense increase tanks become weaker due to the way %'s work:

if you have an old delta style merc tank build (which btw can STILL get 60% wins to this day, so i dont want to hear complaints about jugg being too hard), it is useful because not only do strikes have little effect, but you can greatly reduce the effect of skills as well. You are left to rely on lower damage, and naturally the lower defense of lower levels in order to do a fair amount of damage to kill them before you get killed yourself.

i have a 26 bounty juggernaut, with a 45-11 win/loss.
fair smoke, high strength high health, and low energy, as you would expect. this works because of the reason that lower levels have lower shields to hide behind, and rely more on stat points.
a single smoke can allow me to strike for 40 damage healing 10 health, and repeating this until one dies. i can heal and repeat the process now against a single opponent.

notice: already tank builds can kill my bounty (they just dont frequently exist, because lower levels dont know of them).

if EVERYONE got a defense boost like you suggest this would immediately make Juggernaut battles to difficult for the merc tank build, because now you nor them can damage, but there are two of them and they rage faster, leaving you in the dust.
this would be due to the fact that they can now ignore my main source of damage and my only advantage on them.

and this would make jugging with a debuff build once again useless, including tech mages, as well as my bounty, because armor supplies defense which cannot be reduced.
smoke and malfunction are most effective when the person has no shield and relies on stats for defense.
when armor is increased they have a huge advantage

any juggernaut build will become greatly weakened (the tank, and smoke are just 2 personal examples)

i know we discussed that juggernauts aren't meant for free wins, but you see how much complaints we get now,
i can assure you it would double, if the one major advantage we have on lower levels is taken away.

i dont dislike the post, its not a bad idea for 1v1 and 2v2, but i cannot support it for these reasons mentioned above.



DarkDevil -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 15:26:14)

by ordinary armour i ment somthing like 35-40 which anyone except BM and BH can reach and if you get like 8 armour to it you'll get less than 10 dmg.
i didn't mean nukes i just ment a 12-15 +35 and 35-40 +8 (what u want to add) so it will end up with 7-15 dmg which is very low while a support build will crict more ignoring alot frequently so you'r gonna end up with everybuild losing much effecient except support ones which will be OP again due to cricts.



Demon Emperor -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 19:45:44)

If armor was changed to be stronger, and nothing else changed, battles would get a lot longer at the cap. Theyre already way too long in some cases I think, esp. in 2v2.

Weapon damages should also slope higher towards the cap, so that lower levels aren't getting too much armor for their lvl and higher lvl balance doesn't shift dramatically.
(I 'm not sure by how much the wep damage should increase, I'm not really a math person.)

quote:

for the fact that when defence is increased weapons will also have to get a buff or else someone with ordinary damage like 12-15 will do less than 10 dmg a turn against another one with ordinary defences and also means that support builds will get a head in the fights after defence s increased due to cricts while they will get their own defence higher so it will cause the superiority of armours and the nerfing of weapons and the buffing of cricts.

This whole scenario is solved when weapon damage increases, like you yourself said at the beginning.



toopygoo -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 19:56:19)

then we are exactly where we started.. we deal the same amount of damage as we currently do and nothing has been changed except criticals are EVEN MORE damage. Blocks and deflection would not be changed.
personally, i think armor is fine the way it is. you can make 40-40 defense builds, or have as little as 7-7
its about customization, and however you like it.




Stabilis -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 20:35:54)

quote:

i think armor is fine the way it is. you can make 40-40 defense builds, or have as little as 7-7


You can do 7 and 7?



King Helios -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 20:36:27)

Normal Defense with Passive Armors: About 22-27 +3 [+10] = 35-40 (Tac Mercs)
Without it: 28-34 +2 (Bounty Hunters) = 30-36
Now, you wouldn't put all of the proposed 7 into one type; you'd split it. So, on average:
w/PA: 39-44
w/o/PA: 34-40
Now, attack is normally 11-14 +36.
Normal Strike vs PA: 3-11 Damage
Normal Strike vs Non-PA: 7-16 Damage

A reasonable buff to offensive stats would find me definitely supporting this. As for now, the above offensive numbers are a bit low, so I'm on the fence about it.



toopygoo -> RE: Increased Armor Points (6/2/2013 22:01:48)

well you start with 6 and 6. im sure with some creativity you'd be able to pull it off... although its, true i havent tested. i based those number off guesses



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