EpicDuel's Economy (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 10:01:43)

First time I may be posting rant-type of thread in GD, or at least in a long while. But let's not already assume it's only for ranting and trolling, there's something I'd rather discuss more.

When Devs were preparing for Omega, we've had many changes announced. Everyone's hopes went up, everyone got excited and speculations have arisen in terms of what will be changed as well as new features. One of the things I've personally hopes for was better pricing standards.

In Delta, we needed both currencies - Credits and Varium - to purchase a Varium item whilst you only needed Credits to purchase a F2P item. The Credit prices for both were almost the same but Varium weapons had the stat advantage. Then we've had the release of Varium items for Credits, and their price was at least the double of that of a F2P item. Fine by me, you work for it and get more Credits for sake of advantage or purchase Varium and use it as a shortcut. Pretty neat, eh?
We're now in Omega. The pricing has went up for Credit items and the prices do depend on Rarity as well, so you may find Limited-Rare item to cost much more than a plain weapon you can get from Junker. The system is neat here since you pay more to get an unique weapon, but is it really wise to make the prices so steep that it may cost almost double of that of a basic item? I understand when it comes to Cores since these do cost money (Credits or Varium) so it's justified, but rarity? It could cost a bit more but let's not take it too far! Rarity serves no other purpose but to get on LeaderBoards which are limited to specific amount of players. What use of rarity is there for those who don't care about it but want the weapon? Aren't the prices too steep when it comes to rarity?

Next up are the prices of Cores. If you think before purchasing them, you can save a lot of Credits. Likewise with having more than one type of each weapon - say 2 P Guns and 2 E Guns - so you can have different cores on each and save Credits/Varium on swapping between Cores, which leads me to think that Core Inventory isn't that necessary as long as you think before purchasing cores; not all are useful; you don't need them all.
What worries me is the price ratio of Cores (7000 Credits : 495 Varium). Isn't it a bit too much? The ratio here is 14.14 Credits : 1 Varium, just for a Basic Core! We already do know that the more advanced the Core is, the more it will cost - power comes at a cost. When comparing it to weapons, some have 250 Credits : 50 Varium or 400 Credits : 50, despite neither of them having any sort of rarity and being the same type (Sword). These are: Black Katana and Butcher. Why is there such a difference between the two? I've looked at another Sword, Blinding Blood and that one costs 8,000 Credits or 180 Varium!
Are we paying for the art or rarity? Shouldn't the prices for all base weapons (no stats) be equal? You could use upgrading to cost more yet make these weapons cost the same, so in the long run, you pay the same price for the weapon but can buy the base more easily. If we look at the ratio of Credits : Varium here, it's 44.44 Credits : 1 Varium - why such a difference? We've jumped from 14.14 Credits to a whooping 44.44 Credits!

Linking to the above paragraph, are the prices really standardised? We seem to be paying more for the art and even more for rarity. I am aware that all the weapons are equal, but is it really fair? Shouldn't all base weapons cost the same amount and upgrading be more expensive - so you would end up paying as much as you do now when buying a base weapon + upgrading, but the base would be more affordable thus players could buy new items without worrying about their price? Furthermore, shouldn't we have a fixed ratio of Credits : Varium? Varium is used as a shortcut and I can see that when purchasing the base of the weapon and upgrading with Credits but when it comes to Cores, is a player more likely to spend 7,000 Credits or 495 Varium? In this very example, is Varium truly a shortcut or just being de-valued even more by Credits?

In conclusion, should the prices be standardised? Should we pay more for the art and rarity or should all weapons be truly equal and cost the same price (before and after upgrading)? Or more importantly, is Varium really a shortcut?

This is NOT a complaint thread. It's something that needs an attention from the Developers and a feedback from the community. It's our money being played around with here (Varium) and unstable prices do make it very complicated when it comes to purchasing new weapons, or rather not being able to purchase them due to the inflation.



Mondez -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 10:33:18)

@Trans

I agree with your points because more and more we are paying for skins and the prices for weapons are literally everywhere. Some weapons cost more than others, but they are the same strength if you buy another weapon that has the higher price. Most new players now would stick to their basic beginner weapons and one prime example would be a level 30 tech mage that I faced during the easter event who kept his basic stave and a considered low level gun. The reason why the prices are everywhere is because every gun has a different damage output, but the issue here is that we are spending more gold to increase the damage upkeep.

I think all the weapon prices should be standardized because there is no consistency to these prices. Special core weapons should also have a standardized price as well in the stores plus some items I don't think should even be priced the way they are like the bikes. The bikes have no use in battle and if they gave stats then they can be useful, but 100k for a bike isn't even close to being consistent with the prices because it literally just wastes gold because all the bikes does is nothing except being eye candy. If bikes had some use in battle then maybe so, but overall looking at the other prices on weapons and armor are inconsistent and way out of order. The economy in the game is not there, it is nonexistent and random that is the ED economy. It is just random for no reason in any shape or form.

I came up with a bounty system to combat the high prices, but I fear the prices will keep being inconsistent and raised to higher levels: ED Bounty System



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 10:59:05)

@trans, you just made a very good points there. Just to add some of my observations, i guess prices of weapons in omega should really be higher compare to other phases because ALL players nowadays will have the chance to acquire ALL in-game weapons and robots. One of the reasons why players felt these weapons are really expensive because of the difficulty to earn credits. Let us remember that the reward for a normal PVP (level 35 vs Level 35) is only 32 credits. The question is, are 32 credits already an enough reward after a long hard fought?? I guess not. Another way to earn credits is farming NPC's. The dev's thought that making NPC's unlimited would make players earn credits easily so they set a limit to 100. But they never realized that they have just make weapons cost almost DOUBLE of the price in omega (not to mention the mental torture of grinding npc's for a couple of hour. BORINGNESS TO ITS MAXIMUM EXTENT).

Here comes the solution: I guess more pvp rewards could somehow ease the burden of these high cost weapons nowadays. A simple reward system like battle drops (e.g miscellaneous items which can be assemble to form a weapon or a particular core, extra credits which can be random, or the return of broken weapons). these things doesn't need a lot of time in order to implement but it can obviously create more motivation for the players to play PVP more.



Scyze -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 12:36:35)

One of the things I've noticed is that now there's no more Credits on offer while purchasing the 10,000 Varium package. Was this replaced by the Cores available with the Weapons or is it a forceful way to make us spend more Varium?
I've always thought that the 10,000 Varium (along with the 15,000 Credits + Weapons) was a great deal but now, it's not that great. We have two options on how to purchase the Weapons; Varium or Credits. Straight after Omega, EpicDuel's currency dropped in value as items became more expensive.

I respect that the game's gone into Artix's idea of paying to get a shortcut (or whatever it was) yet sometimes, the Credits are a better value. Most people's main reason to why they were actively playing EpicDuel was because of the 15 NPC challenges per hour feature. You could gain Credits, Battle Tokens, Influence and Experience. This feature made a lot of people to get the urge to get the 15 free wins available as well as playing for hours. With that feature removed, people simply dropped-out of the game. It also led to the dramatic amount of Credits gained per person dropping as they were too slow to pick up wins. So, when this thing occurs, shouldn't the price be dropping to those players can afford to buy the Weapons with Credits? There are those people with over 700,000 Credits but what does that make in difference? Everyone is the same, some might be able to constantly buy Varium while other's cannot.

To the Varium side, I know it's supposed to be a shortcut yet how much of a shortcut is it? Look at the Bunny Borg Armor, minimum cost of 995 Varium but it is how much it had cost in the past but now, you do not even get the stats or the Defense & Resistance buff (I don't know what it's called. :/). I know it's Limited-Rare but as Trans pointed out, "We seem to be paying more for the art and even more for rarity". This Armor or any other Armor does not enhancement of your battle performance. Each Armor is the same yet the Cores do change it.

Do we really need to buy these items that are overpriced? Or is it that the Weapons are shown as if they're the top of the line, best of the best, you have to get it to be a good player?


Vehicles
One of the best areas to comment on for me.
Lets take Dage's Blood Rider and the Botanical Bike as a example. Surely they're the same, one's not faster than the other, you can sit on them and you are still limited to the amount of actions you can perform.
Dage's Blood Rider
Higher Rarity Score than the Botanical Bike. (2,146)
Cheaper in terms of Credits. (30,000)
Better animations IMO.
Smaller in size.
Botanical Bike
Has the opposite of Dage's Blood Rider.

Are we just paying for the Rarity here or for the artwork? Why does something Dage the Evil made cost lower than the price of a... non-employed boy? Why does artwork cause the value? -Probably doesn't make sense.
Looking back at Trans' example, Blinding Blood is a great bargain yet another Weapon made by a non-employed person costs higher?

Quite a lot I get told in my History lessons is that there weren't always a fair system in history (tax). That's what it feels like now, EpicDuel's very own VAT system. Unfair in some cases but good at times. What we want is a fair price on things, just because we are the players of your game, give us hope. There are people who play in poor countries, not being able to play as long as many of us who live in developed countries. This new system makes it worse, something was in their reach before but now, it's higher in value, beyond their reach. Yes they can buy off cheaper dull looking items but they cannot get the good gear can they?


I may have wandered off-topic but this was nearly what I was going to post if Trans didn't make this before me.



Mysterion. -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 12:47:04)

Amusing.
I like this sentence the most:
quote:

The economy in the game is not there, it is nonexistent and random that is the ED economy. It is just random for no reason in any shape or form.

Why?
Because ED's Economy is truely nothing different then the Economy we live in in real life.

Let's have a look shall we.
Take as example the clothing industry.
Their are numerous kinds of clothings, all shapes, all colors and even all prices.
You have brands with high prices, which are meant to be of better quality and better looking (Ultra-Rare's-Rare's) (Example's for Real life are brands like Diesel)
You have brands with low prices, which are only meant to dress yourself of, low quality and bad looking (Non-Rare's) (Example's for Real life are brands like H&M).
And last but not least, clothes that are only available for a limited-time and cost more then the regular clothes in the shops (Limited-Rare's).

Yet even in the Non-Rare category, you have thousands of different brands that all have different prices, yet have the same quality as all the other clothes out there.
Although this is caused by the competition between several entrepreneurs, it still can be compared to ED, as the only difference of the items that belong in the category is looks.
Looks is all what makes a weapon different to another in ED (with the exception of weapons with applied cores), which is entirely the same to the real world, yet the Economy still runs
fluently, yet you dare to call the Economy of ED 'non-existent'? So the Economy in real life is also ''non-existent'?

Bikes however, serve only for looks yet some cost more then another.
Jewelry is the perfect example is this, it has no other purpose than to look nice, yet cost alot, and even in this there are different prices.

ED: Better looks, Better quality = Higher Prices
Real life: Better looks, Better quality = Higher Prices
ED: Simple looks, low quality = Lower prices
Real life: Simple looks, low quality = Lower prices
Awkward comparison, is it not?

Now the varium to credit currency.
This one needs a change, the currency between varium and credits swings up and down every single time.
Class change currency: 50,000 credits - 900 varium = 55.56 to 1
A Black Katana of lvl 1: 250 credits - 50 varium = 5 to 1.
A Blinding Blood of lvl 1: 8,000 - 18 varium = 44.44 to 1.
This is absolutely outrages, this currency must be standardized, despite the changes in prices.
I agree with the price differences amongst each weapon, but the currency between varium and credits should never be different.
(Sorry for taking your example's Trans, too lazy to search my own :3)



Side comments:
quote:

Rarity serves no other purpose but to get on LeaderBoards which are limited to specific amount of players. What use of rarity is there for those who don't care about it but want the weapon? Aren't the prices too steep when it comes to rarity?

Rarity has another purpose, if you reach 25,000 points you will get an achievement.
quote:

because it literally just wastes gold because all the bikes does is nothing except being eye candy.

Actually, they make you move faster aswell, it is not only eye candy (outside battle then).



Scyze -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 12:54:44)

quote:

Jewelry is the perfect example is this, it has no other purpose than to look nice, yet cost alot, and even in this there are different prices.
These bikes in EpicDuel are the same, they don't out perform each other like in the real world. None of the Vehicles require fuel therefore there's no "miles per gallon" system involved. This MPG system does change the cost.

quote:

Real life: Better looks, Better quality = Higher Prices
Surprised me a lot actually. Not always does the looks raise the price. I can go out there to the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop, find a watch at a price of $50,000. Terrible quality, bad condition, horrible look yet they're rare. Rarity bumps up the value of prices in the real world yet this doesn't happen to EpicDuel.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 13:00:04)

Since art got mentioned, why should better art cost more? Whether it's good or not, it's opinion based. I may love every single item made by Nightwraith but despise everything that was created or altered by Charfade because I hate her style*. The problem is... does everyone think the same? Of course not! Art shouldn't be used as an excuse to give an item a higher price.

The point with rarity remains. The more rare it is, the more it should cost. Mysterion covered it pretty well in my opinion.

* This is just an example. I do not mean to offend any of the Devs, in any form.



Mysterion. -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 13:09:55)

quote:

These bikes in EpicDuel are the same, they don't out perform each other like in the real world. None of the Vehicles require fuel therefore there's no "miles per gallon" system involved. This MPG system does change the cost.

I was speaking of the bike, in terms of prices, as being nothing else then luxery.
Bikes have different prices, yet all serve the same purposes.
Jewelry does the exact same thing, serve the same purpose yet differ in prices.

quote:

Surprised me a lot actually. Not always does the looks raise the price. I can go out there to the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop, find a watch at a price of $50,000. Terrible quality, bad condition, horrible look yet they're rare. Rarity bumps up the value of prices in the real world yet this doesn't happen to EpicDuel.

Depends on one's opinion, you might find the watch horribly looking, i might find it beautiful.
And, it might me an antique piece of jewelry, you probably do not know the history of this watch, do you?
Besides that, there always are exceptions of the rules.

quote:

Since art got mentioned, why should better art cost more? Whether it's good or not, it's opinion based. I may love every single item made by Nightwraith but despise everything that was created or altered by Charfade because I hate her style*. The problem is... does everyone think the same? Of course not! Art shouldn't be used as an excuse to give an item a higher price.

The thing is Trans, this is the same thing that is going on in Real- life.
You might like gothic clothes, i might like skater clothes. (Example's)
Gothic clothes might cost more, but in my opinion they might be god awful.

This all is opinion-based on that matter.



Necromantres -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 13:32:20)

quote:

is Varium truly a shortcut


Let's look for example at Azrael Will..it was available only to varium package...sure it will be available for credits next year..but until then what? when it will be again available another thing will take it's place, yeah a new varium one and if not it will be common since in 1 year people will learn to counter it.But what about this year? What about the so called shortcut that in some cases decides the fate of the battle?

So good question...is it really a shortcut?


About credits:varium there isn't a well defined ratio...a class change have a different ratio, weapon have a different ratio...As for what we are paying varium art or rarity..well it's both...let's take the base cub for example it's cheaper to just use and upgrade it, yet it looks horrible, now if we look to hero hearth set...besides it's energy the only different thing it's that it is limited-rare and a nice art...The new legion/exiles weapon..They come with a sort of meteor shower core and yet their price it's irrelevant so high...


And for the art it's irrelevant to speak of it because people see it different...i like the basic armor more than the rare armor that you got from charfade (with that dragonoid...i forgot the name) Hearthbraker aux looks nice for me yet the bunny themed looks bad for me...



daredevil0420 -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 13:36:59)

Mysterion.
It's not about real-life.
Is it fair making the Botanical Bike 50.000 credits?
And like trans said a basic core = (7000 Credits : 495 Varium) wow that's too much!
If one core is that much it should be in your inventory not on your weapon
I say to be happy in omega you need at least 150.000 credits



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 13:47:11)

daredevil0420, I've also said this:
quote:

We already do know that the more advanced the Core is, the more it will cost - power comes at a cost.

Since the Poison is also a Core, it's powerful. Power comes at a price. It's pretty much always useful unlike say Azrael Bot which is useless if your opponent doesn't use Shields in the fight. Nevertheless, Mysterion still has the point with the economy. It exists in ED and you can see it when it comes to art and rarity, and how these reflect on the price. Likewise with Credit inflation.



hijinks -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 14:09:29)

The inflation of prices have gotten so bad that instead of being a worthy time saver into a real money drainer. Sure, people have spent more before during the Omega, but the prices have gotten so high that even those people are less willing to buy varium.



ReinVI -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 14:12:26)

one thing I would like to point out in relation to this is the prices are not justified given they made making credits 10x harder... you use to be able to obtain items from drops that you could sell for a quick buck ( 1000 credits as an example ) that 1000 credits is equal 31.25 1v1 wins at 32 credits per win. Selling these items made it easier for people to obtain new items that cost credits because it saved them the time it would have normally took to earn that 1000 credits through battling. Say 3 minutes per battle that's 31 battles ( if all of them are wins ) and at that rate it equals out to 93 minutes ( 1.5 hours ) saved just because we could obtain this item to sell. But now with omega not only did the prices of items nearly double in most places but they took away weapon drops which makes finding that 1.5 hour time saver impossible to obtain. Now onto what all this means.. with the current prices ( will use the new exile/ legion weapons as an example ) they cost 46,250 credits fully upgraded.. now say someone wants the energy and the physical variant that becomes 92,500 credits that equals out to 2891 1v1 wins at 32 credits per win now following the "three minute per fight" rule that totals out to 8671 minutes which = 144.5 hours = 6 days in total worth of time to obtain those weapons... and what if people can only play for 4 hours a day? well that totals out to roughly 36 days at 4 hours per day doing 1v1 to obtain the amount of credits needed to buy TWO items... what makes these weapons so great that it should require playing this game like it was your job just to earn them? absolutely nothing the art ( while good ) is worthless the core ( while looking cool ) is the same thing as meteor strike or w/e ... so worthless.. the rarity? who cares about rarity people want the item for the item not how many rating points it's worth.

But due to the fact that nobody has a 100% win rate obviously lets do some math to factor in losses.. let's say during the process of gaining that amount of credits you lose 1000 times.. that's 16000 credits so take 92500 and - 16000 = 76500 gained through winning sooooo
losses 3000 minutes = 50 hours = 2 days 2 hours
wins 7172 minutes = 120 hours = 5 days

so even with the losses the total comes out to roughly 7 days or an entire week of nothing but 1v1 combat.. so going back to if you can only play 4 hours a day that totals out to a staggering

42.5 days

these prices are outrageous it's as simple as that.. unless you make credits far, far, far easier to come by the epicduel economy is doomed..



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 14:22:40)

I myself find the current pricing methode obsolute due to the changes with Omega.
All the weapons now are the same (with some exceptions), so the prices should be aswell.
However, Rarity label should play a roll in the pricing methode, since this is one of the few things that differs them these days.

But, i myself dont got a problem with the prices tho, i have more then enough credits and varium in my inventory :3.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 15:03:52)

Even the battle-on points increased also with the exception of england aswell having a bad economic crisis also.

I used to buy £30 for 10k varium but now it is £45 pound from a micro payment. I just don't want to spend that much money on a game now.If I have brought every single package from ED by now, then it would be a waste but it's good I didn't.

I would use a credit card but I have to wait till I'm 18 ^_^. Going to save up my money for something else for 2013 ;3. Next Gens!!



goldslayer1 -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 15:33:23)

:o an economy subject, i hope someone doesn't come out blaming a political party member...



toopygoo -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 17:02:09)

i red all the posts in this is my submission on the idea:
agree and support what has been stated, however, a FIXED trade off should not exist between credits and varium, however, a a MINIMUM trade off value should be there.

and personally i think the minimum should be a 15:1 value trade off, if it is something you do in fact pay for.
if we do the math, you get 200 varium for 1 USdollar... 10,000/50 and additional ingame items. if it is something you pay for there must be a value. i chose minimum 15, because that is the value at which things start looking a lot cheaper for varium than for credits, for cheaper items. the increase in conversion price should be relative to the the credit price itself, and should rise exponentially.

and nothing should ever cost more than 1,000 varium in game.



Liz Vicious -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 19:19:13)

I think an important note to ad to this thread (I don't believe it's been touched upon, admittedly, I've only scan read this) Is that In this instance as part of Artix, Epic Duel very much borrows this concept from AQW. Mondez mentions it and it's 'Skins' Although not serving a practical purpose, AQW is all about collecting the latest armor and weapon which relates to a themed event. These vary greatly in price dependent on rarity, volume, (time) availability and especially if you have to complete a variety of 'quests' conversions etc etc to gain them. So, you have 'special shops' 'rare shops' 'event shops' 'hidden shops' the list goes on...I also believe they have begun to introduce new character classes too which, more accurately mirror Epic Duel because you have function along with a rare 'skin'. What Epic Duel has done is copy this concept. Although they have had to add functionality to whats available (because that's obviously how this game works) Part of that functionality being the core system. The problem here is it doesn't work. It doesn't translate. And we get threads and, plenty of them, based around pricing.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/5/2013 20:02:31)

i agree that the botanical bike is too expensive and some items ingame are a bit too expensive too. since they are rolling out new items every once in a while it would make sense to lower the price by a few notch, because credits still takes a bit of time to earn unlike varium, for credit players they simply couldn't keep up with buying the latest cooler looking item they want unless like some has said, they'd have to be a no lifer to do so. promo items should cost as they are now but the price of other items that costs more than 30 k should be lowered to around 20k-25k credits, otherwise it would repel people from buying new regardless if they like the look or not.



Scyze -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/13/2013 7:25:21)

Credits from the Varium packages get removed and then there's an increase of the cost of the prices of Weapons. Don't like this at all.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/13/2013 7:29:02)

That's because you don't need both currencies anymore to buy items; old Varium items required Credits and Varium. Now, it's only one of them. You pay ~same amount of Varium as you did before but with no Credits. There really isn't an issue here.



Khalix -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (6/13/2013 7:49:04)

Prices dictate rarity. Not necessarily art or power.

It's been agreed by some people such as myself that this is just a dressing game- Much like AQW. Supposedly, these fancy rares are for showing off to the people who were unable to acquire those rares- Problem is, the population is rather low so bragging rights do not really matter.

Ask yourself, why do people still buy them? You'll either think it's for bragging rights, maintaining their rarity score or to simply waste money. They are fully aware the weapon has no advantage yet they buy it anyway just for aesthetics.

Why? Power doesn't matter. You can't expect a buff to fancy equipment ever since Omega (Save for exclusive cores) because Varium has turned from advantage to shortcut. Weapons no longer have to be tiered by their levels and/or stats they give, same goes for armors.

But really, the main point of buying them is aesthetics, no more, no less. If everything had an equalized or average amount of price, then the older (And usually less-attractive) weapons would be absolutely phased out, obsolete and forgotten because a blaster just costs the same as a seasonal weapon.



Primal Light Dragon -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (7/19/2014 18:48:38)

But you must remember that A: Mysterion is right, except for forgetting that bikes have a purpose (although they all have the same speed, therefore allowing his mistake to go unnoticed), and B: In the storyline (research on the wiki), no on knows varium's true value! We have no idea of what it is worth, and it therefore cannot be standardized to credits. Also, there is no absolute value to anything. What value does varium have to a lost man in the desert? He has no use for it, lacking technology (normally). He needs food, shelter, and water. Varium has little value, except as shade (if the man or woman can use it as such). A tent or a house would be better. And finally, C: STOP COMPLAINING! If you are going to offer advice to the staff, fine. If not, forget it. ( I'm staring at you, Mondez!)



Grixus Faldor -> RE: EpicDuel's Economy (7/19/2014 18:52:41)

Please do not bump old threads and please refrain from direct attacks (veiled or not) at other users or members of staff and do not engage in backseat moderation. These are against the rules and punishment will be issued according to the severity and incidence of the transgression(s).

Thank you.



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