The biggest imbalance in the game still exists

The biggest imbalance in the game still exists (Full Version)

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King of Clubs -> The biggest imbalance in the game still exists (6/5/2013 22:47:38)
The issue of leaving partners in 2v2 has been a persistent nuisance in game since the introduction of 2v2, which I consider to be the biggest problem currently facing the game, far more serious than any imbalance among the classes as it affects EVERY PLAYER OF EVERY LEVEL AND CLASS. To be honest, I don't see why the ED team has continued to ignore this issue despite the ease of fixing it and the serious problems it poses to the player community. What is more imbalanced than a normal 2v2 player fighting alone from the start against 2 opposing players? ALL YOU NEED TO DO is implement a penalty system for leaving a battle before you have died. This would reduce all credits and experience gained by the penalized player for the next 5 battles (or the next hour if you really wanna crack down on it) by 50%, as well rewarding 0 battle tokens for any wins the player achieves during that period. You may also add "runs" to the record along with wins and losses, displaying for all to see how often that player abandons their partner. "Well some players leave due to lag." So what? If a player has a lag issue so severe that they can not finish a 2v2 battle then they have no business in the 2v2 system in the first place. Players should not have to enter every 2v2 battle with the fear that their partner will leave them. This is an epidemic in the game and no other imbalance is as indiscriminate in its victims or as devastating to a players record. If the ED team is legitimately concerned about providing the fairest possible game experience, then this should be their top priority. I hope that the game designers will soon recognize how big of an issue they are currently facing and take the action to correct it. -Post Edit- You could exempt players from their first "run" penalty each day, providing a grace period to compensate for actual lag induced log-outs. Alternatively, you could restore the grace period after every 20 or so battles without a run, so that even players who lag out a few times a day will not be penalized for it so long as they do not decide to to it intentionally. I ask that all players read the first 5 posts (between me and Mother1) in this thread to get a better feel on my suggestion and my response to what I expect will be common comments on this thread prior to posting. Please also read the entire post before responding. Even if you disagree, please feel free to post your ideas on this, the first step to solving any problem is initiating the conversation about it. Failing all other options, should a player leave a battle before dying, the battle will end and all remaining players will receive a win and the corresponding amount of tokens, credits and xp. Obviously, the leaving player will receive a loss and none of the corresponding xp or credits.

Mother1 -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 22:52:25)
So we should replace the fear of a player leaving us with the fear of getting penalized every time a disconnect comes or real life causes us to run? In other words not supported.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 22:59:09)
Mother1: If you routinely d/c, leaving your partner to die, who is really getting hurt more?

Mother1 -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 23:09:02)
@ KOC Ever hear of getting booted because a server lag? Well this has happened to me in the past and I don't think it is fair that someone get penalized because of in game issues that can and do occur. Not everyone disconnects on purpose. Off topic Penalizing players for disconnecting has been mentioned quite a few times. If an AK sees this I believe it should be added to the FSI

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 23:24:13)
This is not based on penalizing you for lag. It should be a players responsibility to know the limits of their system and avoid inconveniencing other players when their hardware is experiencing difficulties. If a lag wave occurs system wide it will affect a large number of players at once. This is easily detectable and will obviously be exempted from the penalty system. The purpose behind the update is to protect players who are harmed by inconsiderate partners, if you get a penalty per week due to lag that is a small price to pay. If you receive it several times a day, maybe you shouldn't be doing 2v2 in the first place. 5 battles is a relatively small penalty which, when occurring on a rare basis, will not significantly impact a players credits or experience. It is intended to be damaging only to players who routinely leave battles as a response mechanism to a weaker partner or difficult opponents.

Dual Thrusters -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 23:40:56)
Hey I got this idea from League of Legends. When you quit a match, you cannot PvP for 10 minutes. If real life kicks in or a disconnect, then whatever because it is only 10 minutes, plus you can still run around the map and customize.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/5/2013 23:50:52)
@DT Since the game is so heavily based on PvP (but so is LOL I guess), I feel that this would be too much of a penalty. I would however agree to this if it restricted all 2v2 PvP for 10 minutes, although I'd also like to see some form of credit/xp loss as well.

Mysterion. -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:03:39)
quote: This is not based on penalizing you for lag. It should be a players responsibility to know the limits of their system and avoid inconveniencing other players when their hardware is experiencing difficulties. If a lag wave occurs system wide it will affect a large number of players at once. This is easily detectable and will obviously be exempted from the penalty system. Yet there are still situations where the player can lose connection out of nowhere., without knowing it on before-hand. Take as example: - The internet provider losses control and the internet is out of the air for several hours, yet when they come back they are being punished for it even if they did nothing wrong. - The internet cable suddenly gets hit by a random person close to the PC, player losses connection and when they log back on they are being punished for the clumsiness of that random person. Their are several reasons for connection losses, that cannot be foreseen by the ED player, yet you dare to punish them for it. Besides that, their is no system that detects the difference between a connection loss and a runner. I do not support this.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:16:58)
@Mysterion: How many times per day do you have a partner leave you? I have it happen at least 10 times a day, and would gladly sacrifice a few xp/creds every few days. Every loss from when a partner leaves can cost you well over 50 creds and a load of xp. The xp/creds you'd save from not losing partners would easily exceed the rare and very temporary lag induced losses, and honestly, if you lag out often enough each day to lose you more creds/xp than you save from keeping your partners then you shouldn't be playing 2v2. You people are thinking only of yourselves and how you might lose a hundred or so creds (and even less xp) once every week or two, but think about all the creds you are cheating your partners out of, and how much damage their record takes (damage which is NOT induced in any way by this plan). Every time you leave your partner in 2v2 battle (for ANY reason) you are essentially condemning them to a loss, which can cost them almost as many creds/xp as the leaver loses through penalties (considering it is hard to even kill 1 of a 2 person team by yourself). All in all, this system will put FAR FAR more creds and xp into the game than it takes out of it, except in the case of players who intentionally leave battles on a routine basis. To sum it all up, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

The Incredible Hulk -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:36:59)
^^ What if you lagged out a load of times? What if you kept having ''Admin kicked'' when it wasn't your fault for leaving? Not supported There are not many players playing the game. If there was alot of players, I would've supported

Mother1 -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:44:26)
@ KOC You are calling everyone who doesn't agree with your idea selfish, yet you are ignoring people's valid points on why this system is a bad idea. While you bring up some good points on somethings (such as if people know they are lagging often they shouldn't play 2 vs 2) you still ignore other things that can happen because you are worried about your Win/loss ratio which IMO is being selfish. Things happen that are beyond our control and disconnects happen. Yes you are ignoring that factor just and want to punish innocent people. That is what I don't agree with in this idea. Here is another situation that you would get screwed over with this idea. I start a 2 vs 2 battle on an update day. in the middle of that battle an update warning comes. the match lasts longer then the countdown and boom we are all disconnected before we die. We come back and we all suffer Punishment because our match was under a time limit due to us starting it before the warning countdown starts and didn't finish it before time was up.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:45:13)
@Hulk: Leaving a player in battle is a horrible thing to do to a person, if you have been lagging out repeatedly all day its is your duty as a responsible member of the games community to either stop playing or switch to 1v1 mode (where you will not be trespassing against your partner) until the issue has been resolved. Kindness, consideration, and self accountability are virtues which are quickly disappearing in the world and I would very much like to see ED take an active role in encouraging the development of these skills among the new and next generations. Edit: @Mother1: The game could be set to disable the penalty system once the update counter has started, as the admins control the updates they could even do this manually if required. I am not calling you selfish, I'm simply concerned that until now none of the responders even mentioned the damage that leaving a battle does to the other player. It appeared to me as if most of them did not even consider this aspect, nor the positive effect that the system would have for both them and other players, before posting solely about how the system might negatively affect themselves. As for the your other point, please read the post edit section of my initial thesis and tell me how you feel about the compensating factor. I'm particularly interested in your opinion of how many non-run battles should cause the grace system to reset while remaining fair to laggers.

Xendran -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 2:57:57)
Are all snowboard and ski hills smoothed out and made so every single person with any equipment can handle it? Gaming is a hobby. Hobbies have costs and required equipment. If your hobby is online gaming, one of those costs is internet. If you don't have the proper equipment (a stable internet connection), don't expect to get the full experience. I don't see why it should be skewed in favor of those players while damaging the players who actually have the required equipment.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 3:07:13)
@Xendran: THANK YOU! Finally someone who looks at it from a neutral perspective. Like I've been saying, it's not a matter of being unfair to one side or the other, it's a matter of preventing inconsiderate players from making the game unfair for their partners. If a player is being unfair to another, they need to be stopped or they will continue to ruin the game for the rest of the players, which should not (and can not) be tolerated.

The Incredible Hulk -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 3:08:36)
quote: Leaving a player in battle is a horrible thing to do to a person, if you have been lagging out repeatedly all day its is your duty as a responsible member of the games community to either stop playing What if you couldn't because you had 2v2 champs to do? Or what if you hate 1v1 because I know alot of people that don't like 1v1 and love to play 2v2? I bet you disconnect also once in a while and still play 2v2 quote: it is your duty as a responsible member of the games community to either stop playing Maybe that's why so many people hardly play 2v2. One time it took like 10 minutes to find one. And plus I wouldn't say that it's my duty. I hardly lag out but it only happens occasionally when there is a bug with ED where the devs cannot resolve. And why would I quit. I have payed a great value for this game.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 3:12:43)
@Hulk: I do lag out once every day or so, but this is an incredibly rare occurrence considering how much play. I am willing to accept a penalty for each time I lag out, I wronged my partner by doing so whether I intended to or not, and I will gladly take responsibility for this action. In aforementioned occurrences, he/she lost creds and points because of me, so it is only fair that I be made to lose more. -Post Edit- I too have spent alot on this game, my battleportal level is nearing 100 (each level is approximately $20 spent on an AE game). Many, many players have spent large amounts of their hard earned money to play this game, so is it really fair to let them log in and be condemned to loss after loss by inconsiderate teammates leaving them alone in battles? Also, I would appreciate it if you used my entire quotes instead of mincing words by cutting it off halfway through the thought.

Drianx -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 3:30:47)
Most quitters in 2v2 are angry because of unfair teaming in 2v2. If you do not solve this first, you're actually treating the effect, not the cause itself. And you cannot really treat the cause because ED population has already decreased, and putting more restrictions will make you not find partners to team with. If I were you, I'd simply try to understand that everyone has a 10% ratio of undeserved losses, due to quitters, disconnects and so on. Just my opinion.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 3:35:24)
@Drianx: Even if they're mad it does not justify the wrong that they are doing to the partner, everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting that. Leaving a battle without regard for the partner is immature and that type of mindset needs to be dealt with whether or not the level match is unfair.

ReinVI -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 4:08:33)
Not supported in the least ~ I am fairly neutral on this entire game flaw/ bug/ problem whatever you wish to call it. Where I understand peoples fist pounding, gut wrenching hatred towards these players who just "poof" at the beginning of a fight just remember "IT'S JUST A GAME" that's the main thing to remember. As for those people who disappeared? well a questions to ask yourself. Did that person run? Did that person disconnect due to bad internet? Did that person experience the 'battle failed to start' bug? Did that person suddenly get called away from the fight? There are a million things that can happen which cause people to be unable to fight in 2v2. If anyone is selfish it's the people who think these people should be punished for disconnecting ( not to say I don't agree with punishing runners ) but until there is a sure fire 100% way to differentiate a person who runs away from a person who gets disconnected for x reason there should not be a punishment placed in effect at all. And as for your comment Xendran that is a HORRIBLE idea to think what if it's not the persons fault they can't have a decent internet? they may have the funds but what if a decent stable internet service doesn't extend it's service far enough to where they live? ( an example would be me.. I like half an hour from town so I'm stuck with satellite net ) where my internet is stable enough to maintain a connection to this game ( only problem is slight input lag etc etc... ) but the thing is just because someone doesn't have top tier internet does not mean it's them being to cheap to not buy it. So saying that's the case is downright rude in a lot of ways.

King of Clubs -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 4:25:18)
@ReinVI: first of all yes, it is a game. Does that mean that it shouldn't be improved? Following that logic there is no need to ever have another update on the game. Secondly, if you kill a man in the United States unintentionally, that still constitutes a degree of murder. If a doctor makes a mistake with medication and kills a patient, it is still malpractice. The reason behind it does not matter so long as they are harming the other player. Except in very rare circumstances, the player must make some degree of decision to leave immediately instead of waiting the extra minute to help the partner. Entering the 2v2 system constitutes committing to a battle and to staying in the battle for as long as you are able to continue helping your partner. This is an agreement of trust between the two players, breaking a contract has consequences, why should this be any different?

Mysterion. -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/6/2013 5:10:57)
quote: Entering the 2v2 system constitutes committing to a battle and to staying in the battle for as long as you are able to continue helping your partner. This is an agreement of trust between the two players, breaking a contract has consequences, why should this be any different? This already is the case, King of Clubs, they stay as long as possible till the lag drags them out of the battle. Players dont purposely cause a disconnection when in battle, they cannot change anything about this. Some developing countries even have an overall weak internet connection, regardless which providers, your suggestion would ban all the players from 2vs2, simply because there is a chance on a disconnection. And for what exactly? Because you had bad luck with disconnecters, you want to punish them all while their are numerous reasons for a disconnection (like my example's). I myself recently went for the daily 2vs2, i had won 193 battles that day, with only 4 disconnectors. And simply because they got disconnected, they should be punished? It is even more funny that you call us selfish, whilst you are the one that does not give a single thing about those who have a possibilty of a DC.

lampur1 -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game (6/9/2013 18:12:45)
and if whe start punishing people to disconnect unknown reason whe will lose MORE PEOPLE so that means you wont be able to play at all because people dont want to lose everything they have wasted time for (if you start penalizing not sure how to spell that people many will hate the game for punishing you )unkown reason) so if you punish em you may at the same time call the game a waste of time. all i wanted to say is if that is added ED will probably lose a half of its player base so the game wont bring in any money AKA Epic duel in the end will be shut down

DunkThatOreo -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game still exists (6/9/2013 20:29:48)
Why is anyone even arguing over this horrible idea. Punishing people for something they had no control over is simply being a jerk. End of discussion. Why don't we focus on fixing the pairing of partners rather than penalties for something as ridiculous as losing connection.

Mother1 -> RE: The biggest imbalance in the game still exists (6/9/2013 21:05:16)
@ dunkthatoreo That would be a better idea IMO. However as it stands now the only solutions I have been hearing is either A Ally link for 2 vs 2 and Juggernaut which is in FSI and was rejected due to abuse B (which has been suggested mostly by player closing in on the level cap) Lower the range for pairings which with the amount of players there are now isn't a good idea as it would hurt cap level players more then anyone else since they have the lowest level range not to mention there aren't enough players where this wouldn't hurt them.

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