Nerf critical/disable it (Full Version)

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ResistTheNWO -> Nerf critical/disable it (6/6/2013 12:59:36)

i'm fed up of always being criticalled in almost evry * game. i know i can avoid 8% of the damage with cores, but i have now NINJA REFLEX & I LIKE IT.

So... nerf criticall/disable it.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A STRATEGY GAME FFS, NOT EPIC LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough said.



Ranloth -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/6/2013 13:16:32)

If you can lower it, why aren't you using it? You're to blame for not wanting to minimise their impact and picking other effects. Disabling it would lead to abuse since it would cause brainless builds to appear and highest damage would be the best way to win.

Crits help you deal with tanks. The more defence, the more Crits ignore. Nerfing? They've already been done so. Minimal damage is much lower, it ignores less defence than before and you have core to minimise it even further. Increase your HP instead so it won't take away as much.

Use available solutions rather than want a nerf/disabling game's feature because of your bad luck. Likewise, if you crit, we should really nerf you because you've won the battle and that wasn't fair - you got lucky so how is that fair?

Enough said.



DarkDevil -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/6/2013 14:44:00)

crictal is controled by support and because you don't have alot of support WILL mean u WILL get alot of crictals on you , just because you don't build up support and go for tanky build doesn't mean that the crictal should get disabled to make you stronger.



ResistTheNWO -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 10:01:30)

DISABLING CRITICAL wil make no one stronger. That's why there's smoke screen & malfunction!



Ranloth -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 10:04:13)

Justify it, please. Rage will be the only solution against tanks and that one works in favour of glass cannon builds (since they have low defence + high damage and vs. tanks, their damage is cut down drasticall hence more rage), so totally, makes no one stronger. Not every class has Smoke or Malfunction, what about them? Why should we disable it over your bad luck? There was a rule in Balance Discussion Thread that these type of complaints about luck weren't allowed since they were heavily biased and were usually posted by players who had bad luck (with no mention of them having luck in their favour which is hilarious).



Mother1 -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 10:20:04)

Oh boy if they ever did this anyone who brought the infernal intridictor wouldn't be happy since your suggestion would make this weapon which you had to pay for with varium worthless.

But on a note of balance removing crits will buff tanks since there will be one less thing that can be used to stop tanks, also as trans said what about class that don't have malf or smoke? what about them?




ResistTheNWO -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:02:46)

i usualy don't have any luck ... i get owned continuosly by 35s with str & support build.

a i never crit due to my low supp ^^.

What about Blood mages ye say? They have bloodlust.



toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:10:26)

i think tanks already generally have that decreased damage to balance them out. in this omega stage, crits can freely be removed and leave rage only for those high support builds. Crits just give random rage to those builds anyways, and they can build it up in 2-3 turns without problems.
back in the early stage, this was added to decrease low level battle lengths, and because Varium had huge stat advantages, to give the non-varium builds a chance too.
currently, only levels have minor stat advantage, so tank builds are generally futile anyways, because they will lose to quick kill build 9/10 because of criticals.
i dont want to complain, i've over that stage, however, i do see criticals as something that gives support more unnecessary advantage.


they get: first strike, high rage, high aux, high skills, and high crit rate? thats excessive, especially because they already have high damage.

other stats only give the advantage of high gun/strike success rate, and high block/deflect rate. strength gives nothing at all, except increases very few skills.



Ranloth -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:12:24)

Totally, because you've never blocked, deflected or critted. Quite biased. Even if you do, it still counts as luck. Base chances exist as well, so you can get as lucky as others do.

Also, BL won't be a passive in a matter of few hours. Your point? How about Mercs? Exactly.



Thesoulweaver -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:12:28)

^
What use is bloodlust when BMs recover, like 2-3 health per turn against tanks, OR get hit very hard beause of low defense?
No complaints.




toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:22:18)

quote:

Totally, because you've never blocked, deflected or critted. Quite biased. Even if you do, it still counts as luck. Base chances exist as well, so you can get as lucky as others do.

Also, BL won't be a passive in a matter of few hours. Your point? How about Mercs? Exactly.

Mercs wont be tanks in a couple hours either... they're defense will decrease by 11 points, increasing quick kill builds potential once more.

my point? Crits are overpowering support builds by giving them UNNECESSARY advantages (which by the way also increases rage gain).

saying something or someone is "biased" does not change anyone point of view. i try to be unbiased, but you are right now "biased" from the "crits are in place" point of view. what needs to happen is a deeper understanding of each others' points, rather than poingint out flaws in the point from which i see a current issue.

yes i deflect and block, which increases enemy rage gain, which will in turn decrease my shield and allow for great damage, if done in a strategic manner. that is perfectly in line.
and BM's... why did we got onto the topic of bloodlust?
anyways, BM's have th potential for way higher damage with certain builds, and i find them to be the most challenging in certain situations. just because a certain BM-Bloodlust duild doesnt work, doesnt mean others dont either.
they can have very strong sidearms, as well es decreasing my damage, and they can also increase their defense to increase their damage with dex builds.



Mother1 -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 11:58:47)

@ toopygoo

Well support increases the chance for a build to crit so what you and the OP are complaining about truly is Support is doing one of the things it is suppose to do which is increase crit chances.




toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 12:11:52)

im not complaining, ,im just finding reasons why it could make sense. i really stand on neither side of this argument, however i felt compelled to find facts contradicting yours in order to keep a debate going.
quote:

Well support increases the chance for a build to crit so what you and the OP are complaining about truly is Support is doing one of the things it is suppose to do which is increase crit chances.


if you read my post you'll see that im not saying people crit too much, im saying crit has become obsolete, and should be removed, because it gives and unnecessary boost to support builds. something they dont need.
the same way plasma doesnt have an unnecessary crit boost (like bunker or cheapshot) because it is already plenty strong without it.

Tank builds have become balanced enough so that you dont need to crit all the time to take one out.



Mother1 -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 12:41:06)

@ toopygoo

This would affect balance on all levels not just high levels. What about juggernauts at lower levels who are overwealming the masses with tank builds? You take away crits from them and most of the time even with a good build and good partner they would be even hard pressed against fighting jugs. Removing crits would be buffing low level jugs and a nerf to lower level players who are already hard pressed to deal decent damage against low level juggernauts.

Then as I made in a previous post what about owners of the infernal intricditor a weapon that was not only brought with real money, but also works by powering up crits by 10%? removing crits will make this weapon useless, and tick off all owner of this weapon as well.



toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 14:44:37)

im sure they wouldnt mind a 10% in some other field: increase rage damage by 10%, increase deflection effect by 10%.

and this would have no effect on lower levels juggs. i have 2 level 26 juggs (well.. 27 now) and crits really dont effect the outcome of a battle at that stage, its more reliant on teammates.

it might change the course of 1/10 battles for the better or worse (that cant be decided either) so in the grand scheme of things, nothing would change for them



Mother1 -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 15:23:39)

quote:

im sure they wouldnt mind a 10% in some other field: increase rage damage by 10%, increase deflection effect by 10%.


I can tell you that you are wrong with this one. For one the people will call false advertisement if they did this because that isn't want everyone who paid real money for this promo paid for. They paid for a weapon the powers up crits, and gave extra damage when fighting the delta vault. The later purpose is gone, but the first still remains.

I own this weapon myself and I wouldn't like it if they up and changed this weapon's purpose because it wouldn't be what I paid for.

quote:

and this would have no effect on lower levels juggs. i have 2 level 26 juggs (well.. 27 now) and crits really dont effect the outcome of a battle at that stage, its more reliant on teammates.


Can you provide me evidence of this please? while I know you have faced some opponents in jug fights as I have faced jugs with my lower level alts. can you give me evidence that it can grantee crits have no effects on jug fights for the opponents and jugs?




toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 18:51:11)

would you like photo evidence? or how did you presume this can be done.
tell me what you'd prefer it.



Mother1 -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 19:15:15)

I asked you to prove to me with evidence that by them removing crits from the game, that it wouldn't make or break people playing juggernaut mode in the lower levels since at the lower levels for the opponents facing jugs only a handful of builds will work against them.






toopygoo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/7/2013 19:34:09)

i understand that. i asked what method of proof/evidence would you prefer?



DarkDevil -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 3:43:45)

removing critcal is like removing balance from the game , althought cricts might sometime work in a weird way ( i , with only 60 support , cricted twice on a row on one with 140 support and ofc he was screaming HACKER) but this doesnt mean we should remove crict but we should fix the game RNG to give more unstable numbers but mainly crict is there to prevent anyone from having 45+ defences and go invincable.



Ranloth -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 5:52:23)

You can't fix RNG... It's called Random Number Generator for a reason. >.>



DunkThatOreo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 16:31:15)

Why do you guys argue with each other when the devs are the ones responsible for these support abused builds. You should be complaining and arguing with them rather than each other because they are ones
with the power to change the game.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 16:46:30)

To add on to Trans' post, trying to fix RNG would be like saying "I'm rolling a six-sided di too much on 1's, make it land on 6's more



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 16:48:20)

^^

They don't have all the power. They certainly do not have the power to fix all bugs.
Dunk, Why don't you go into a developers shoes? And see how hard it is to code.



DunkThatOreo -> RE: Nerf critical/disable it (6/8/2013 17:20:14)

^I'm not saying it's easy to code, the devs just aren't doing anything to push this game forward. Almost nothing has changed for four years. One class gets an advantage over others, get's nerfed, a different class get's
an advantage over others, get's nerfed. Right now however everything is equal in a way. All classes have a build that can compete with others but that's it, only one build that really works. PvP is bland, boring. I don't
know about everyone else but I'm tired of playing against the same exact stupid build every single battle. Whether five focus or some stat spamming crap build. I know it looks like I'm kissing up to Xendran alot but I
just believe his suggestions can improve the game.

Also I never said anything about bugs, there's nothing you can do about those besides fix as many as you can before more pop up.



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