Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (Full Version)

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Xendran -> Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 4:18:49)

ED, want to make money without pay2win?
Sell varium-only alternate paintjobs for robots. It shouldn't be customizable like armor, but you could modify the colors yourselves (Referring to the developers) and offer variations on the color scheme of existing bots. Kinda like the bot skins in Ratchet Deadlocked, now that i think about it.

Another thing is to sell helmet effects. Things like additional horns, halos (im pesonally not a fan of these, but whatever), wings, hover effects (Things like this: http://puu.sh/3gR5s.jpg), etc.
The same thing can be done for weapons with glow effects. Armors can also have things like shoulders, replacement parts (Like being able to spend varium for different looking boots on your armor).



Scyze -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 4:52:02)

You want to make the game more of a dress up game? Your idea sounds like it.

For the helmets, NightWraith did say that at one point, there could be a time where you can shoot things from your head.



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 4:58:27)

Calling it a dress up game is nothing but a buzzword used to defend a position that is damaging to the game.
Can you think of a legitimate reason to not implement these?
It's like calling League of Legends a dressup game because they sell skins. It's not the main focus of the game, it's the method of making money.
They then use that money to improve the PVP.



Mysterion. -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 5:14:48)

I think this belongs under the:
quote:

- Color Custom (CC) Weapons

In the FSI, since you want to be able to change the colors it falls under Color Custom, just not entirely, but still the same idea.

For the helmet/armor/weapon glow effects, not supported.
I see no use in this, just dressing-up your character, no actual benefits from what i get from your post.



RageSoul -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 5:47:04)

Anything that'll make investment worth it , yes i support!



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 6:56:51)

quote:

I see no use in this, just dressing-up your character, no actual benefits from what i get from your post.


So you don't want ED to actually make good amounts of money, that they can then use to improve the PVP and possibly rake in enough money to hire new staff?
And you don't want varium players to have reasons to buy more varium? and things to spend it on?
Yeah. Think about the big picture before blindly disregarding a thread, and simultaneously attempting to get it closed because ONE of the things in it RESEMBLES something in the FSI. Games take TONS of money to create.
Not only that, you put words in my mouth. I never said anything about color custom weapons. The one thing i said with this that DOES involve color specifically does not allow custom colors.
Developer created alternate paintjobs and/or skins for robots is not the same as color custom weapons.


But yeah, if you don't consider the ability to improve other aspects of the games a benefit, then sure. No extra benefit. If you say so.



Mysterion. -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 7:30:53)

You suggest to make colors modifyable:
quote:

but you could modify the colors yourselves (Referring to the developers) and offer variations on the color scheme of existing bots.

Limited to given colors by the devs, yet still after one's choice, making it fall under color custom, just limited.

And no, it is not my business if they make money or not, unless they eventually need to shutdown ED, but that would not happen in the upcoming few years. By the time it does, i already quitted this game so.

Increasing the PvP? I see no possible legitimate changes in this feature, apart from new skills/classes and new animations, perhaps a new battle mode, but charfade already stated reasons why changes cannot be made.
More reasons to buy varium? Just some silly animations wont make people buy tons of extra varium, Xendran.
I saw a post from you earlier about this subject, yet i do not see this happening, there will always be people who spend some of their varium on these things. Yet i do not see someone actually buying a 10k pack for a simple animation.

You cannot predict that this will increase income, you are not a clairvoyant.



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 7:40:22)

quote:

Limited to given colors by the devs, yet still after one's choice, making it fall under color custom, just limited.


And why does this make you want to attempt to get this thread closed for having something SIMILAR to an fsi?

quote:

And no, it is not my business if they make money or not, unless they eventually need to shutdown ED, but that would not happen in the upcoming few years. By the time it does, i already quitted this game so.


If you quit and don't care, why is your opinion valid then?

quote:

Increasing the PvP? I see no possible legitimate changes in this feature, apart from new skills/classes and new animations, perhaps a new battle mode, but charfade already stated reasons why changes cannot be made.


And the ability to hire more staff such as balancers, programmers, designers.

quote:

More reasons to buy varium? Just some silly animations wont make people buy tons of extra varium, Xendran.


That's completely false. Go look at LoL. They make many many millions of dollars from exactly the kind of things im suggesting.
'silly animations' is completely ignoring the ideas behind what i said.
Skins, effects, animations, etc. are GIGANTIC profit rakers and people DO buy tons of currency for these things. You should see the ridiculous amounts of money people spend on Armor Dye in mmos.

quote:

I saw a post from you earlier about this subject, yet i do not see this happening, there will always be people who spend some of their varium on these things. Yet i do not see someone actually buying a 10k pack for a simple animation.


The point isn't to only sell 10k varium packs. The lower packs do exist, you realize. Just because they're a bad deal now does not mean you attempt to invalidate things that would potentially make them more desirable.
Also, "yet i do not see it happening" does not mean that not doing it is the correct way to go about things. The developers are not infinitely knowledgeable, and often make very basic mistakes regarding marketing and PR. It seems to me that titan and rabble are trained in only coding, and nw and charfade only in art. They seem to have a poor grasp on game marketing and the current games industry economy. This is not their fault, as it is not technically their job to know these things as it stands, it's technically up to AE. It is, however, hurting the longevity of their product.

quote:

You cannot predict that this will increase income, you are not a clairvoyant.


Never heard of market data? This is a massive stretch, when you CAN predict it based on the past.
That's like saying that i can't predict that i will get wet when i jump in a pool if i haven't done it before, after seeing many other people jump in and get wet.
Sure, there's a small chance that somehow i become unique in that i don't get wet in jumping in the pool, but that is an uncomprehendably foolish assumption to make.
Other games do this. They make money. This is a consistent and proven trend.



Mysterion. -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 7:54:37)

quote:

And why does this make you want to attempt to get this thread closed for having something SIMILAR to an fsi?

I did not attempt such thing, as one of your ideas is not in the FSI, it would be illogical.

quote:

If you quit and don't care, why is your opinion valid then?

At a certain time, everyone will quit.
Even when someone will quit, it doesn't make his opinion invalid.
Besides that, opinions can't even be invalid, they can seem illogical and such, but they can never be invalid.

quote:

That's completely false. Go look at LoL. They make many many millions of dollars from exactly the kind of things im suggesting.

LoL =/= ED
Stating it works in other games does not prove it will do so in ED aswell, regardless of the succeses in other games.
Different players, different opinions, needs and minds, Xendran.

quote:

Also, "yet i do not see it happening" does not mean that not doing it is the correct way to go about things.

Yet it does not do the opposite either.

quote:

The developers are not infinitely knowledgeable, and often make very basic mistakes regarding marketing. It seems to me that titan and rabble are trained in only coding, and nw and charfade only in art. They seem to have a poor grasp on game marketing and the current games industry economy.

Tell me something i do not know yet.

quote:

Never heard of market data? This is a massive stretch, when you CAN predict it based on the past.
That's like saying that i can't predict that i will get wet when i jump in a pool if i haven't done it before, after seeing many other people jump in and get wet.
Sure, there's a small chance that somehow i become unique in that i don't get wet in jumping in the pool, but that is an uncomprehendably foolish assumption to make.
Other games do this. They make money. This is a consistent and proven trend.

Other Games =/= ED
Past =/= Future
Again, customer bases are different in each game, you cannot assume this will work in ED till it actually happens.

Let's not take this to a financial discussion, Xendran, or you want your thread to get locked?



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:13:40)

quote:

Other Games =/= ED
Past =/= Future

See:
quote:

Sure, there's a small chance that somehow i become unique in that i don't get wet in jumping in the pool, but that is an uncomprehendably foolish assumption to make.


ED is not a unique and special snowflake that is exempt from market trends.

quote:

Stating it works in other games does not prove it will do so in ED aswell, regardless of the succeses in other games.


I never said it proves it. It heavily heavily implies it.

quote:

you cannot assume this will work in ED till it actually happens.


1. Yes you can. It's called an assumption, and not a fact, for a reason.
2. Then why attempt to prevent it from happening if you don't know whether or not it will work?

quote:

Let's not take this to a financial discussion, Xendran, or you want your thread to get locked?


There is a difference between 'financial discussion' such as "prices are too high/low" or "varium is a ripoff" or "AE is nickle and diming us" and a discussion such as "Here are interesting things that we could buy with varium that will also help the game grow, and here's why".
Also, blatantly ignoring evidence from the success of other titles in the same genre and using massive stretches such as trying to claim that ED is somehow massively different from other games (only true difference is that it is 2D and even that isn't exclusive) is not a valid contribution to the thread, and does nothing but derail it and fill it with spam.

Show me one constructive thing that you have contributed to this thread? There are no suggestions for improvement, no proofs as to why this would be bad for the game, nothing. Only denial, exaggeration, and opinions based on the opposite of what has been shown by historic and current evidence. There is a time and place for things like that, this is thread is neither.



Scyze -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:23:38)

quote:

Can you think of a legitimate reason to not implement these?
You want a legitimate answer? If so, then why haven't the previous suggestions of color customizable Weapons been thought out fully? It's just something that doesn't really have a good reason to why it should even be added. All this will do is make the game more into the dress-up my action figure/doll game who can then kick people's butt.

quote:

It's not the main focus of the game, it's the method of making money.
EpicDuel might want to make money but Artix Entertainment isn't worried much on making money. They value players over profit.

quote:

And why does this make you want to attempt to get this thread closed for having something SIMILAR to an fsi?
When hasn't this ever happened?

quote:

That's completely false. Go look at LoL.
What does League of Legends have to do with animations or even the thread's post? LoL is a 3D game and the animations differ so it might seem cool to look at more than if you would look at 2D animations.

quote:

and often make very basic mistakes regarding marketing.
No one's perfect. Things they do could be to make the game better. Risking for the sake of the game could be a bad idea but the rewards could do what they want. Maybe the mistakes you see are intended.

quote:

i become unique in that i don't get wet in jumping in the pool
You can become unique or could turn out to be one of the biggest joker in the planet.

quote:

titan and rabble are trained in only coding, and nw and charfade only in art
Really? You know sometimes things are hidden, we aren't told everything. There could be a chance that NightWraith himself had added codes into the game when it was being made as well as Titan making artwork. Also, you said trained. I was never trained to animate, do coding or even how to use Flash yet here I am, doing as good as I can.


quote:

Show me one constructive thing that you have contributed to this thread?
Not trying to sound like an idiot but he did post 3 times with good reasoning.



odsey -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:23:56)

Supported. Why? Because as a varium player myself I feel quite bored of the game. If this happen, this would make the game more interesting because of the effects that varium could purchase while keeping balance. But I suggest the price to be not too costy though.



Mysterion. -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:25:04)

quote:

ED is not a unique and special snowflake that is exempt from market trends.

ED already proved it is different then other games.
Good example is the power creep thing you posted.
Once enchancements were removed and every player was made equal in stats, the game went downhill, whereas games like AQW went uphill.
Given the small amount of advantages varium gives, the player base schronk in size (as you can clearly see).

So, like i said and will repeat it once again, ED =/= Other Games.

quote:

2. Then why attempt to prevent it from happening if you don't know whether or not it will work?

Because i see no use in this, it will take up lots of time from the devs, taking away weekly releases and such for something i do not see improving this game.
AKA, waste of time and effort.
This is my opinion where i am entitled for and cannot be called invalid, yet you try to make it sound so.

quote:

There is a difference between 'financial discussion' such as "prices are too high/low" or "varium is a ripoff" or "AE is nickle and diming us" and a discussion such as "Here are interesting things that we could buy with varium that will also help the game grow, and here's why".

I did not say we already were in a financial discussion, i said let's not take this to one. ;)

EDIT: Since you editted something to your post.
quote:

Show me one constructive thing that you have contributed to this thread? There are no suggestions for improvement, no proofs as to why this would be bad for the game, nothing. Only denial, exaggeration, and opinions based on the opposite of what has been shown by historic and current evidence. There is a time and place for things like that, this is thread is neither.

Last time i checked the rules, i did not see anything where i am obligated to give you any suggestions for improvements.
I only need to kindly explain my critisims, which i am doing atm.



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:32:57)

quote:

If so, then why haven't the previous suggestions of color customizable Weapons been thought out fully?


There could be more than one reason for that.

1. It's very hard to make color custom items. MUCH MUCH harder than making alternate pallete swaps.
2. Perhaps the integrity of weapons are meant to remain in tact and not drastically changed.
3. They would likely have to add separate pallets for every piece of gear when doing this, because if it just went off of your basic colors selection it would likely look terrible. This can be seen already with bikes using certain color combinations.

quote:

EpicDuel might want to make money but Artix Entertainment isn't worried much on making money. They value players over profit.


1. AE exists to make money, and that's completely untrue. With no profit, AE doesn't exist. The idea is to balance both.
2. Massive pay2win and then a lie about removing it while still keeping it in the game thinly veiled through promos is not consumer friendly. Also, adding NEW things to buy with varium is not anti-consumer. It's both making the players happy by giving them more options, AND making more money.

quote:

What does League of Legends have to do with animations or even the thread's post? LoL is a 3D game and the animations differ so it might seem cool to look at more than if you would look at 2D animations.


I didn't even mention animations in my OP anyway. And LoL has to do with cosmetic microtransactions. It is by far the most successful cosmetic microtrans game on the market.

quote:

No one's perfect. Things they do could be to make the game better. Risking for the sake of the game could be a bad idea but the rewards could do what they want. Maybe the mistakes you see are intended.


You don't have to be perfect to have good PR.

quote:

Really? You know sometimes things are hidden, we aren't told everything. There could be a chance that NightWraith himself had added codes into the game when it was being made as well as Titan making artwork. Also, you said trained. I was never trained to animate, do coding or even how to use Flash yet here I am, doing as good as I can.


You omitted the part where i said "it seems to me". This changes the message completely from "it looks like" to "it is".
Also, when talking about a released commercial product, you do not want to just 'do the best you can' on something that massively impacts both the players, the developers, the games lifespan, etc. You want somebody who knows what they're doing.

quote:

Not trying to sound like an idiot but he did post 3 times with good reasoning.


See:

quote:

Only denial, exaggeration, and opinions based on the opposite of what has been shown by historic and current evidence. There is a time and place for things like that, this is thread is neither.


Saying things that have absolutely no resonance with what the gaming industry has been showing for many years while talking about a game is not good reasoning.
I'll agree that an opinion cannot be factually wrong (2+2=5 is not an opinion for example, it's simply false), however an opinion CAN be a fallacy, or not applicable.




quote:

ED already proved it is different then other games.
Good example is the power creep thing you posted.
Once enchancements were removed and every player was made equal in stats, the game went downhill, whereas games like AQW went uphill.
Given the small amount of advantages varium gives, the player base schronk in size (as you can clearly see).


This is because it was poorly done. Want to know what AQW has? Recurring membership options and cosmetic microtransactions.
Power creep also still exists, enhancements was just the most obvious offender.

quote:

Because i see no use in this, it will take up lots of time from the devs, taking away weekly releases and such for something i do not see improving this game.
AKA, waste of time and effort.
This is my opinion where i am entitled for and cannot be called invalid, yet you try to make it sound so.


Just like you're allowed to tell me why you don't like the idea, i'm allowed to show you why your opinion does not fall in line with the current reality.

quote:

Last time i checked the rules, i did not see anything where i am obligated to give you any suggestions for improvements.
I only need to kindly explain my critisims, which i am doing atm.


And i'm allowed to respond to them. It's a two way street, you aren't the only one who is allowed to disagree with what another person has said.



Scyze -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:36:49)

Can I ask you a simple question? Why did you only post one quote when you have the entire post available. If you disagree, shouldn't you post the whole thing?



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:38:51)

@Scyze: I'm not sure i understand. I quote everything in the post that i feel is worth responding to, and most of my posts in here contain many more than one quote. Also, what does that have to do with the suggestion?



Mysterion. -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 8:49:57)

quote:

This is because it was poorly done. Want to know what AQW has? Recurring membership options and cosmetic microtransactions.
Power creep also still exists, enhancements was just the most obvious offender.

Power creep still exists in ED aswell (Promo cores like Azreal's), yet it went downhill whereas AQW went uphill.
See the difference?

quote:

Just like you're allowed to tell me why you don't like the idea, i'm allowed to show you why your opinion does not fall in line with the current reality.

It does and already said how, not oging to repeat it once again due to stubborness.

quote:

And i'm allowed to respond to them. It's a two way street, you aren't the only one who is allowed to disagree with what another person has said.

I did not say otherwise, it was just a comment on yours.



Xendran -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 9:05:15)

quote:

Power creep still exists in ED aswell (Promo cores like Azreal's), yet it went downhill whereas AQW went uphill.
See the difference?


ED went downhill because it has poorly implemented mechanics, a lower installed playerbase than aqw, very bad PR, a history of pay2win, lower quality and quantity of updates, fewer staff, less community interaction, less funding, less advertisement, fewer mechanics designed for player retention, they made players feel massively ripped off, and they lied about the removal of pay2win.
They basically took away your pay2win, refunded a little bit of it, and then said "Spend $50 to have it back!".
When i said power creep still exists, i WAS talking about epicduel. Power creep is a term used to describe an objectively bad thing.

quote:

It does and already said how, not oging to repeat it once again due to stubborness.


"I think epicduel is different" does not immediately invalidate years of industry trends.



Bloodpact -> RE: Robot Paintjobs, Gear Effects (6/16/2013 14:09:59)

quote:

D, want to make money without pay2win?
Sell varium-only alternate paintjobs for robots. It shouldn't be customizable like armor, but you could modify the colors yourselves (Referring to the developers) and offer variations on the color scheme of existing bots. Kinda like the bot skins in Ratchet Deadlocked, now that i think about it.

Another thing is to sell helmet effects. Things like additional horns, halos (im pesonally not a fan of these, but whatever), wings, hover effects (Things like this: http://puu.sh/3gR5s.jpg), etc.
The same thing can be done for weapons with glow effects. Armors can also have things like shoulders, replacement parts (Like being able to spend varium for different looking boots on your armor).



Yes, This is a huge money maker in all kinds of games and should be implemented
here, example of two games I spend loads of money on just to make my characters pretty,
Maple and LoL.


Should be in place here.



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