Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (Full Version)

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Frostblitz -> Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/1/2013 23:13:03)

Hey all frostblitz here and I'm here to tell you the flaws and fixes of this armor ;D

alright then lets get down to business.

Flaws
Only lasts 2 turns
cannot Strike
Can be weaker depending on if your malfed, smoked etc.
Can be nerfed by azrael aux

Fixes
Make it last 3-4 turns
Increase the percentage
Make it not be effected by azrael annihilator since after all it is a core. and it shouldn't be able to be nerfed.
Make the core reflect your total technology or dexterity before the smoke or malf. This allows it to be way more useful

Example when you malfed lets say it shields 5. When your unmalfed it shields 7. Get the picture? All right good.

All right so Just wondering what you guys would do to this core to make it on par with say chairmans fury? Their not anything alike but in power standards I mean.

All right so feel free to comment ;D
Bye



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/1/2013 23:57:41)

There is a policy that says they won't buff any rare items under any circumstances be it promo Perma rare, seasonal rare, or limited rare.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 11:05:43)

@Mother1: Doesn't make sense that there's a policy to not buff it if it's underpowered, but they can nerf it if it's overpowered.

@Frostblitz: I agree with pretty much all the fixes you stated, they look like they would make the core actually useful.



Kiing of Frost -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 11:09:42)

Would really like a quote to said policy... Just a word of advice when you say there is a policy to that make sure you back it up, no offence meant, just that I am positive it will help back up your argument, because i could say there is a policy that says 50% off of varium package on tuesday at exactly 2:38.28 AM Eastern Time in the United States (which isn't true of course), but if i had the evidence then you would know that I wasn't lying to you, thus making said example true... Just advice from someone trying to help...

Stay Frosty [:D]



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 11:50:08)

@ Kiing of frost

Here you go right here. Sorry I didn't post it before but here you go.

quote:

As a general rule, no buffs will be granted to rare items. This is regardless of their status as Limited, Seasonal, Promotional, etc. In order to achieve a more balanced system of play, buffs cannot be guaranteed or handed out on a regular basis. This policy has been decided by the game staff and is not likely to change.


@ Exploding

Yeah I know since they nerfed quite a few rare items due to their own errors.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 20:30:47)

@mother1 I know your a die hard rebel on the rules. We've all seen it on the forums. And you shoot down every idea that even comes close to the boundary.

But the fact is this armor is Underpowered to the point it's not useful. I myself have tested it out and the fact it only lasts 2 turns is really a disadvantage. I prefer generator and that's a free core that only costs 7k credits.

Therefore I'm suggesting a buff to bring this armor on the level of generator. Most people don't get the promo because of this armor. And the devs should change that. If your going to spend 50$ to get something it might as well be something worth using. Which at the present time Botanical battle Suit is not.

If the devs can nerf things. Which we all saw when they nerfed azrael. They can buff one core. It's not going to make a big side effect. Cores are still in adjustments they can change them as they please.

Which is why I support the idea of buffing the Botanical Rooted Core. That aside mother1 do you not agree this armor is underpowered? And if you don't tell me why.

And also Mother1 do you also not agree with the fixes I proposed.

Thank you

Frostblitz



santonik -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 21:26:04)

Frostblitz

I agree with you.

I do not see as a bad thing to improve the armor of the core. The core costs real money. I do not see myself rational to follow the instructions blindly at all times. At this point, could become the exception. The game-makers to help with this problem. I do not own this core. But it would be great to see the core of the opponents. Now, of course no one is using it. Activation pay round and will last two rounds. It's a pretty small benefit over the other.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/2/2013 22:47:47)

Thanks to all who support this idea

To any devs out there or any mods reading this post I would really like it if this core received a buff thank you ;D



odsey -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 0:40:36)

@Frostblitz I agree with your idea, seems pretty good for me.

And@Mother1 I use to say that but remember Omega promo? I remember they say they won't buff promo item but they buff Omega promo so I guess there are some other circumstances for buffing items.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 2:45:58)

quote:

But the fact is this armor is Underpowered to the point it's not useful. I myself have tested it out and the fact it only lasts 2 turns is really a disadvantage. I prefer generator and that's a free core that only costs 7k credits.

It doesn't need a buff. Just an extra round (maybe). There is a reason why it is 30%; it is because Omega cores debuff your stats by 30%. Say it debuffed support by 30% but if you use the botanical core it will bring back your 30%. So basically it is a counter core.

Secondly I do not support because another reason is if you buff the %; then more people will spam support builds which isn't a good idea. Next thing you know everyone will want a debuff on that core since they will say it's OP.More people will be frustrated and angry for the quick wins like in the golden yeti tourney when everyone was spamming support builds (Mercs/Tlm/Mage).

quote:

I use to say that but remember Omega promo? I remember they say they won't buff promo item but they buff Omega promo so I guess there are some other circumstances for buffing items.

That was for a reason. They wanted all the % to be equal so you can counter it. Like the curse for the delta sets (armor/weapon); they have increased from 20% to 30%. Also botanical has 30% 25% whilst Omega sets has 30. It was just so you could counter it. Any harm done? No; Omega doesn't seem OP to me.
quote:


This policy has been decided by the game staff and is not likely to change.


This also shows that ''it is not likely'' to change. It didn't say there will be no change.



Jekyll -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 3:48:37)

I just think that buffing it too much will cause an uproar. Nonetheless, it needs a buff, and I think that it should last as long as other cores (3-4 turns), and also not be affected by the Azrael auxiliary or Azrael's Borg.




The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 10:27:30)

quote:

and also not be affected by the Azrael auxiliary or Azrael's Borg.

WOAH there; 1st you ask for 3-4 turns? Then not to be affected by azrael auxiliary and azrael borg? Now that's a huge buff and that sounds very OP. What about blood commander; field commander; technician; reflex boost.

It has to be equal to the other skills also; not just cores.



Jekyll -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 10:48:51)

First, you are implying implicitly that I want to buff the armor to make it OP. No, I do not and will not have this armor, so my views are not biased.
Next, 3-4 turns is not making it OP, it will just be equivalent to the other skills and cores in terms of duration.
Third, surely there has to be a selling point for this armor such that it appears attractive. If every skill/core can be debuffed by Azrael, then what is the point of getting any new promos, when all you can do is stick with Azrael and keep everyone under control?

BC, FC, RB ans other skills are all found within skill trees. Dragging them into your 'argument' only deflates it further than what it already is.
And for the record, cores need not be on par with skills. Most of them (note: MOST) are only usable once per battle, so cores need to be slightly better and more attractive than ordinary skills, otherwise who would fork out an additional 7,000 credits for one core which can be used once per game?

Anyway, don't bother replying, just read my reply and synthesise it. You can have your own views, I can have mine. No need to be so aggressive in forcing your own views and send flying accusations about me trying to make it OP, which is dogmatic and oh-so'
-ironic.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 10:58:39)

This is what I hate about these cores like the botanical core. It's just a stupid luck core.; it would just give you more luck to crit.

quote:

quote:

Anyway, don't bother replying, just read my reply and synthesise it. You can have your own views, I can have mine. No need to be so aggressive in forcing your own views and send flying accusations about me trying to make it OP, which is dogmatic and oh-so'
-ironic.


Game Balance Discussion Only
The only topics to be made in this forum are those related to the balancing of the game EpicDuel. Any topic created here needs to be done in a fashion to show why you believe there is a balance issue with the current state of something in game. If you are wanting to suggest something new as opposed to a balance issue then you would need to use EpicDuel Suggestions for that.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 11:59:42)

I wouldn't call this core worthless at all frost.

this core is actually one of the only 2 counters for azreal's will so that right there says something.

However my issue with the buffs to this core is that with the current balance I can see this being abused by super tanks even more.

As it stands right now there are 3 kinds of builds. Glass cannons, tanks, and average. While this would help out average builds more, with more then 50% of the population being tanks making it unaffected by debuffs as well as making it immune to the azreal's borg and aux would just make these tanks even tankier.

If I were to put the ED policy aside I could agree with 2 out of the four suggestions.

Make it last longer? Ok I can agree with this one for the purpose that it last way less then other buffs. Heck even the bio borg has a buff of 4 turns and most others last 3-5 turns (blood shield). As for increasing the percentage I am iffy on that one but as long as it isn't too much of a increase it would be good as well.

However the last two I don't agree on as with these as I said before it would OP tanks with super high defenses. If you were to combine these two together it makes the core uncounterable which is OP. So far every core in the game does have a counter of some sort to make the effect less effective. these last two would remove that and would make it OP not in damage but effect since these two things you want to make it not effect it are the actual counters that were build in. If you removed one counter that is one thing but both not a good idea.



killerman164 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 12:21:12)

@Mother
I agree with the first 2 and disagree with the last 3 and 4.
Besides, it's still counter-able if you had technician or any other move which can render smoke/malf useless, and the azrael thing does 85% of the damage which will save you for a little bit, you could use the roots to lure them to the stat decreasing, and then just defend with whatever defense move you use.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 19:35:12)

@Hulk: We're talking about the armor core, not the core of the primaries which buff support. Even if the support core was buffed by another 5%, it'd still be virtually useless.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 20:38:27)

I'm Kinda amused that's what incredible hook thought. I was confused when he said it increases luck...

Any who @mother1 people payed 50$ to get this this core it should be worth their while to use it and the sexy looking armor. Forgive that word Ak's ;D

What is all this 3 build nonsense.... Is that how you classify epicduel. And please do not give me a lecture regarding them I know what each one is. But theres more to epicduel than just that.

I want this Rooted core to be able to be an alternative to generator.

For that to happen it must be increased by 1-2 turns and cannot be nerfed by azrael. It's a core everything azrael nerfs should be shields. But this is a core were talking about. it's not even a big buff core it's +6 on res and def at about 26-32 res and defense... That's not game changing. and I'm sure the "super tanks" will choose generator as it heals as well as gives you energy.

The being non resistant to malfunctions or smokescreens is illegitimate if this core is immune to azrael annihilator.

BUT it can be countered by azrael borg.

So to sum up

increase rounds by 1-2
Unable to nerf against azrael users. But you can nerf it with azrael borg. Keep it how it is so you can counter it, meaning it gets weaker depending on your tech and dexterity.
make percentage slightly a bit higher. I'm thinking 30%? It's 25% now.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 21:04:22)

@ frostblitz

I never said I was against all your suggestions. I even said putting policy aside I agree with numbers one and two. Also the amount you said it should go up by was what I was thinking as well.

However I have to ask one question what made you say the core shouldn't be counter by the azreal's aux, but can be countered by the azreal's borg? I am curious about that one big time.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 21:05:44)

Why would they equip azrael borg when there are so much better bots out there? Botanical IA. Not many have the bot in the first place but everyone has azrael. that's my answer.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 21:09:44)

@ forstblitz

Actually I use the Azreal's borg quite frequently myself, but I think I am one of the few.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/3/2013 21:19:20)

yes exactly but the choice is yours to nerf it. It's not even really worth nerfing cause the result is maybe -4 res and def...

it would be far more useful in my opinion if it is immune to malf /smoke/omega promo.

And I don't see how making it immune totally to azrael borg and aux. And immune to malf/ smoke/ override makes it OP.

Sure theres no counter but guess what we won't be able to use normal "attack" for 3-4 turns if that goes into effect. Consider that mother1. Maybe you forgot about that. TO sit there for 3 turns not dealing dmg because the enemy ate your aux and gun...

That's w3hy many others agree with total immunity to malf/smoke and all azrael weapons. Can't you see that as well?

Edit. not just normal strikes But ALL melee strikes. Is that fair noo...



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/4/2013 11:09:13)

Azrael's borg is effective on non-focus builds mainly because its special is not really influenced by focus, whereas IA, botanical hazards, and the botanical borg thingy are all heavily based off of tech and/or focus. The same applies for yetis and many other bots.

@Frostblitz: I agree to what you said about making armored roots equal to generator comparatively speaking. In my opinion, each skill/core should be unique, but be equal to each other. Right now multi shot and plasma rain are much less useful than artillery strike, bludgeon is far more useful than double strike, etc...



kosmo -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/4/2013 21:31:19)

When your build has no focus and aux is your only wep making high damage, with your opponents shielding frequently on you, only in that case Arzel s Borg is useful and better than arel s aux. it has very few possibilities in battle.



Frostblitz -> RE: Botanical Battle Suit Flaws and Fixes (7/4/2013 21:54:54)

Another reason why most don't use azrael Borg is just plain and simple. Far too many better bots out there.

If the botanical Roote core would uneffected by debuffs and immune to azrael it makes it a much more viable option.

Basically You can use the core as a temporary shield depending on how much decent and tech you had before the malf.

Besides that the core is very cool looking. And so is the armor I think it would become useful if it received immunity azrael debuffs and lasts 3 turns.



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