Will the war ever be fair? (Full Version)

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ReinVI -> Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 6:16:41)

I'm just wondering because as it stands exile have been dominating EVERY time I have logged on... that cannot be coincidence given they
have the numbers advantage and apparently they perform cheap shots like a exile member dropping from 2v2 to give an easy win.
I haven't heard of any legion doing this so i can't say for sure if it's purely exile doing it but as it stands this domination of the war by exiles
really isn't exactly fair to the legions now is it? I mean every time i log on all I see is exile flags over EVERY SINGLE REGION this is ridiculous.
I can understand if it was say a 60/40% split for a faction but for a single alignment to have such a presence that they own every single region?

And on the topic of fairness where's this battle system that was going to be the ENTIRE FOUNDATION of this war? a legion vs exile battle system
I mean if the devs didn't fold under peoples boo-hooing maybe this war might actually be balanced! This war is a failure as a war ( not as an event )
purely because one side of the coin has literally no chance. No matter how much I fight we may get into the 'legion owns this point' for a wee amount of
time but it will suddenly just jump to the other side due to the sheer numbers of exile players.

I don't want to sound like I'm bad mouthing the devs or this war ( i really want the over lord shops weapon given that's my favorite region really ) but as it
stands will the legion even be able to conquer the region to get the weapon in the first place? This war is seriously leaving a horrible taste in my mouth
and I honestly think I would have preferred it being delayed a month if it meant that it would a fair and fun war.

What are your opinions on whether or not the war is balanced or not/ opinions on the new/current/ original changed battle systems but remember to keep it friendly!



ansh0 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 6:26:27)

What if Exile is dominating Legion fairly?

Do you really wan't 50/50 on the map throughout the war?



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 6:52:26)

The numbers bother me aswell. However, hosting tournaments/wars like this becomes ripe for abuse. The system is suppose to pin ExileVSLegion but this isn't the case. I find myself many times being teamed with Legion and I too feel the pain of people purposely leaving fights as during the last x2 period it happened 3 times in a row. There simply is no way to set up a tournament that isn't subjecting to potential abuse.

A tournament to see who can win the most fights in OverSoul was hosted not too long ago and players were double clienting and beating themselves at record paces given them insane win counts so this comes as no surprise to me.

What should be done is only players above level 24 or something win/loses should be counted to avoid dummies being used to rack up wins for the opposing side or a penalty should be given to those that quit excessively. What I was thinking was

Leaving 5 fights = 30 minute penalty.
Leaving 10 fights = 60 minute penalty.
Leaving 15 fights = 24 hour penalty.

This system of the game counting quits would reset after every 24 hours. With a system like this in place people would grow tired of having to wait such long periods. If I recall there was a system that penalized you for leaving fights, what happened to it?



Mysterion. -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 7:21:58)

quote:

Leaving 5 fights = 30 minute penalty.
Leaving 10 fights = 60 minute penalty.
Leaving 15 fights = 24 hour penalty.

This system of the game counting quits would reset after every 24 hours. With a system like this in place people would grow tired of having to wait such long periods. If I recall there was a system that penalized you for leaving fights, what happened to it?

That would punish those with a slow/weak internet connection that disconnects alot.
Simply because it can't track the difference between a disconnection and a simple browser close.

AKA, not a solution.



Mother1 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 7:43:27)

@ Reinvi

If you weren't paying attention at one point in time during the first week even though exile did have the number advantage I strictly remember legion taking over four 4 days before that bug came into play.

Then when that bug was removed I remember for the rest of the day as well as the next that legion kept up well and didn't lose by much. If I were to guess I just think that more exiles are playing and winning at the time just like when legion took it for four days the first week before that bug came into play.

In all honestly I still would like to see it pure legion vs pure exile though.

@ Valerieknight

I don't support this since it would be punishing innocent people who get disconnected or even when the system kicks them for what ever reason. That is a band aid and a very bad one at that.



Jekyll -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 8:02:22)

From a completely unbiased, objective point of view, here is how the war went from the start:

Day 1-3: Exile dominates
Day 4-8: Legion dominates
Day 9-10: Legion dominates, but massive bug causes reset
Day 11-: Exile regains its lead

Therefore, if the reason why Legion is losing is because of fewer players, then how did they even win for 4 days in the first place?

Here, I'm not saying that Exile is not winning because of its numerical advantage. What I am saying is that the numerical advantage is not influential enough to give Exile a landslide victory. What we should do first, is see if Legion manages to go in the lead within the next few days, before making a definite conclusion.

@Valkyrie: There has been the suggestion of such punishment before, but it's not worth sacrificing innocent players to punish the culprits.



Q...Q -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 8:32:13)

Yo reinIV

We got em nerdz in vivid and guap that plays 24h/7 and they both on 1v1 ladder board every day with over 2k 1v1, and other exile faction are doing great still.



comicalbike -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 8:40:03)

well they are winning easy so i wont bother



Angels Holocaust -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 8:46:11)

Probably not, every single time a war breaks out, a magical glitch occurs and the scales of power on each side are tipped. We can easily solve this issue by resetting the war once everything is fixed.



Mother1 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:04:22)

@ angel

There was already such a glitch with the influence bar that gave legion and extremely unfair advantage. Titan did do just that.



ReinVI -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:35:07)

the legion may have dominated those two days but that was two days... then the glitch happened and sure! the legion may have dominated due to that bug but once more that was a bug acting as a crutch for the legion to take a lead. The day after may have been a win but that was probably after a bunch of exile saw that 7000 lead and was like "welp bug ended war I'm gone" then a day later they come back and see "oh look they fixed it" and started playing again which in turn caused legions lead to plummet. I'm willing to give this 1-2 more days and see how it works but to be completely honest this abuse of people skipping out of fights to earn quick wins for there side as well as this stupid alignment vs. alignment issue of fighting your allies ( say 4 legion in a 2v2 ) that's 4 potential players that are caught up unable to gain influence except for the winning side so it would be 4 legion players = 30 influence ( 15 per player ) OR if ti was actually the needed fighting
system it would be 2 legion + 2 legion which would be 60 influence. when multiple legion players get caught up in a single fight it quite literally can cut there influence gain by 50%. This CAN happen for the exile but due to the member difference ( exiles more players ) this has a lesser effect on there gain which gives them an unfair advantage.

If the exile are to win the war then FINE let them win! as long as the win is Earned and not just because a sheer number advantage causes them to overwhelm the legion in victories. Another problem is the war objectives more war objectives to fight in = spreading forces thinner and thinner this is where the number advantage really becomes a problem as think about it 8 regions say there's 600 exile and 400 legion online at the same time there are 8 regions to fight in this equates to a rough average of 75 exiles per region available to fight. legion? they have 50 that's a 25 player advantage in every region which ADDS UP to an much larger number advantage due to more exiles fighting ( even against each other ) is still 'bonus' influence just because those 25 aren't really being contested against legion players!

I know they are trying to fix this by making it to where the longer a faction owns a point the easier it becomes to take but the problem is this is a double edged blade. Say Exile own point A for 1 hour and legion finally take it over and get the cool down. Well as soon as that goes off of cool-down the 'fatigue' on a the place will start ticking down and this combined with the overwhelming force of exiles means the point is taken in say 30 minutes so even with this 'crutch' for the side trying to take a point can also work against the weaker side. I'm not trying to say they should make only one alignment get the crutch but I'm just saying that it isn't a complete fix to the number advantage.



Ranloth -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:40:03)

Glitch has reset it for both sides, no one had the advantage for these two days. Legion has still dominated for 5 days. >.>



Mother1 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:41:52)

@ reinvi

What about the four days that legion dominated before that bug happened? Please explain that one? If exile has sheer numbers then why was legion winning for those 4 days without the bug? If anything that proves that if legion can pull together and dominate when they want to.



Kiing of Frost -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:45:55)

Rein in most wars sheer numbers do help and since this isn't a war based off of sole strategy then you really cant complain, the side with the largest number and most playing time per player will win, no matter how even the battling system is, that is just how this war was designed... and yes I am exile, but i play maybe 20 mins top a day, i don't really care who wins or loses, but don't say the war is unfair because your side isn't winning there is a whole 30 days left, ya win some ya lose some, no reason to get your nickers in a wad.
Stay Frosty [:D]



Mother1 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 9:48:31)

@ kiing of frost

Rein's issue is that there isn't pure legion vs exile. If that was the case then sheer numbers wouldn't matter since you can only fight the enemy. Each side will get the same amount of fights because for every exile that get a fight the same amount of legion players will get a fight.

In other words numbers wouldn't matter and in his eyes it would be fair.



Kiing of Frost -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 10:00:36)

If you look at most of his arguments it is the sole fact that exile is winning...
quote:

Earned and not just because a sheer number advantage
Here I see him mad because exile has a sheer number advantage, alright lets think about this, really hard by having a sheer number advantage they cant earn the right to victory? That is what I read in his quote. Is it not what you read? As we saw when they put the system as Legion vs Exile, many players complained because there wasn't enough of either Legion or Exile to have a quick battle start up, people were waiting up to 5 mins for fight causing rage quits? Do you really want to go back to that system? Do you want to wait upwards of 5 mins only for it to tell you Battle Unable to Start? It is honestly like you guys completely forget how aggravating that system was.
Stay Frosty [:D]



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 10:05:19)

@ Mother

I don't understand why players have to suffer because some selfish players continue to play 2v2 knowing full well their connections are crappy. If you disconnect from 5 matches or even 10 you really should stop playing. This is similar to a laggy person tries to play any team based game only to constantly disconnect. That person should no longer be allowed to play imo.



Mother1 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 10:15:35)

@ valkyrieknight

And why should everyone have to suffer a penalty system because of this? this would only serve to tick off the masses even more especially when it isn't their fault or an accident happens. We have has system bugs that kick innocent players or make matches fail to start with the players there in the past.

Plus here is another situation that happened before with me quite a few times.

I start a 2 vs 2 fight on an update day. In the middle of the battle the warning comes saying the system is going to shut down. The match being a good one lasted longer than the countdown and we were all booted. If your system was put into play anytime we have a match like this we would be punished unfairly as well.




ReinVI -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 10:28:53)

want to know why numbers advantages aren't fair in online games? were not paid to fight. In real life soldiers fight because they are paid and are there as there job. People who
play this game are not being paid to do so they have lives that they have to tend to and that comes first before this game. Now are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that it's
fair that the exiles can relax-play the game while still tending to real life matters and be all hunky-dory while Legion would be forced to no-life this game just to keep a competitive
ranking against the exile? No it's not fair and it needs to be fixed. While balance could be better mother hit it right on the head with what I'm trying to point out. Would I like the other system back?
YES YES YES I liked that system 10x more than this current system given that system was fair and would I mind the wait times? no I wouldn't cause I have something called patience which
it seems most kids these days seem to be lacking...

And Valkyrie while I feel your pain of people disconnecting no I cannot support that I have a pretty crummy connection ( slower ) while it doesn't frequently get disconnected ( maybe the
occasional battle failed to start ) but no people shouldn't be punished due to there internet not being the best. Some people are forced to use slower connections purely because of where
they live ( like me for example ) why should those peoples hobbies and fun be injured just because someone somewhere else is grumpy due to them disconnecting. It's not right in the slightest.
If the game can support the player's connection to any degree then that person has every right to play that game to the best of there ability.



Ranloth -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 10:34:12)

What you like may not be shared by other players, you don't speak for the majority and never will. Paid to play the game? No. Don't compare RL war to online game. How is that relevant anyway? So what if Legions have to try harder? Maybe Exiles weren't just trying enough during the 5 days where we've dominated? You assume they were at their full power just like they've been since Day 11.

You know. No one forces you to fight if you find it so unfair. One person won't make much of a difference so you can relax and let other players handle it.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 11:01:50)

quote:

Leaving 5 fights = 30 minute penalty.
Leaving 10 fights = 60 minute penalty.
Leaving 15 fights = 24 hour penalty.


Ouch, now that's a proper probation.
Infact that's badder then black ops 2.
If you leave 10 games in b02 its 5 minutes & is always 5 minutes even if you leave more games.



Kiing of Frost -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 11:06:20)

Okay ReinIV, now for a history lesson. During the Revolutionary wary soldiers were not paid to fight they were expected to fight to break off the apprehensions of the British Empire that had a tight hold around the colonists throats due to unfair taxation and generalized socialism under a monarchy... This war is based on a Revolution were soldiers, ie. you and I are expected to fight for the will of our side, therefore this is a game on who can get the most help on their side, as with the colonists enlisting the help of the French, whom hated the Brits for the cause of the French and Indian war. If you wish to keep arguing with me you might want to bring in some cold hard facts... Professional Military systems are paid, mercenaries are paid, but militias based on a cause are not paid. Yes the revolutionaries that survived the war was paid, not only in the honor of fighting for a noble cause but also in land given by George Washington, many years after the war in the form of land lotteries.
Stay Frosty [:D]



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 11:16:28)

@ King Frosty

Oh man.....


@ Mother1

Unfortunately this is false, there has been countless times where I've faced other Exiles in 1v1 meaning that it doesn't matter weather the game tries to pin you against the opposite team if they're not a sufficient amount of players on Legion you're going to have fights where they're 3 Exiles and 1 Legion. The fact is because they're far more Exiles than Legion Exiles are getting a significant point advantage.

Could this be a cause of a buggy system? Cause I've diffidently been in fights where they were either 3 Legions or 3 Exiles ( Exile being more likely )

@ ReinVi

I think at some point players begin to not care about their win/lost count thus they start screwing players over. Not trying to whine too much I've had fights where my partner would disappear as soon as I died or stop fighting once I had died. People just lose on purpose while purposely not fighting in battle can't be enforced those who frequently leave fights should. Yes my suggestions are harsh and that's my bias since I never disconnect but I still believe some penalty should be enforced for leaving X amount of fights.


Edit : To be honest I don't think this war can be fixed, if they're more Exiles than Legion actively participating in the war and the Dev team makes it so that there's no way you can fight your own side then we'll probably have the "Cannot find fight" crisis on Exile that we had at the beginning of the war. On the flip side, if you keep it as it is expect Exile to win effortlessly due to numbers.



alpha567 -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 11:19:36)

This War really reminds me of the Vietnam War. Exiles = Charlies and Legion = USA. The reason exiles have a huge numerical advantage is because the exiles back-story and their status as freedom fighters appeal to many players and thus they choose to become them. The Legion on the other hand is in my opinion is viewed as cruel, mainly because of what the girl in purple who killed yetis did (dont know her name exactly). And thus I would like to conclude by this quote: "Nothing is fair in love and war"

lol i sound all formal ;)



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Will the war ever be fair? (7/5/2013 11:22:23)

@ Alpha

I totally hear you. If you read what the Exiles are about and what the Legions are about it makes one ponder why anyone would want to be Legion so Legions were probably doomed to be outnumbered from the beginning.



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