Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (Full Version)

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ValkyrieKnight -> Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 17:48:47)

You got cores that force people to attack. There's a core that weakens buffs, there's a bot that poisons. There's a core that reduces someone rage. There's a core that reduces a persons highest stat I think by 15%? There's a core that allows gun to attack 2 people. With abilities like these that are this anti strategy in the game there's no way for the team to introduce items that are of any use to people who already possess these cores. And any attempt to match them will only drive the game more into chaos. In my mind this game is far beyond being balancable.

I would like to express my appreciation to players who ceased to use the Azreal Aux but keep their guns. Using the gun as I've always said is fine have at it, but replacing the Aux is very appreciated.



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 18:15:34)

@ valkyrieknight

Azreal's will = core that force people to attack
Azreal's torrent/Heart attack = cores that reduce the persons buff
Chairman's fury = core that steals a person's rage
Omega override =core that reduces players highest stat
Spreadifre = core that make it possible to attack 2 people with the gun

Also before the azreal's torrent came there was heart attack something I see very few people use due to the aux version which is very easy to abuse where the bot can't be abused in the same way.

Also all these cores (with the exception of spreadfire and omega override) are counter cores meaning they are suppose to be used like this.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 18:32:25)

It's not anti-strategy. I personally see it as having more strategy, because there are a wide variety of attacks.



Harvester Of Souls -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 18:46:36)

Dual Thrusters, how is it not Anti-Strategy? It ruins other people's strategies, forcing them to lose valuable turns, turns which this game exists of. All of Epicduel's problems with turns and skill would be removed, if the game wasn't turn based[:@]



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 19:11:43)

@ harvester of souls

But that is the entire point of epic duel. Beat your opponent's plans so you can beat them before they can do it to you.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 19:47:31)

quote:

if the game wasn't turn based


Then the game would become whoever clicks Plasma Bolt 3 times in a row first wins :P



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (7/31/2013 23:21:27)

Why I called these anti strategy is because their either too cheap or overpowered. An example of this is when a particular core is over abused to the point where players simply cannot safely use their own builds without risk of being bulldozed by these cores. We all seen the aux abuse tech mages and bounty hunters, unless you build around this weapon you cannot beat it. How is it strategy where you're forced to design your build to counter a core? I have lost countless battles because I got wacked with chairmans fury just before I raged which is ultimately why they won, they delayed my rage. Lost countless fights because I could've overcome high tech / str kamikaze bounties with aux. fights when a Tact merc will wack you with azreal will to stall for his surgical strike. A fight where a cyber will simply drain your energy emp grenade & frost spear then poison you to death.

As you can see, if you do not build to counter these cores specifically it quickly becomes overwhelming when faced with them. I cannot envision a balanced game as long as these cores exist. Tell me, do people really think this latest promo is any useful if you already have Azreal Gear?



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 0:28:42)

@ valkyrieknight

Any core or move that can counter a game plan is anti strategy since they are used to distruct game plans where have you been? EMP is anti strategy because it takes away your enemy so you can't use your moves.

Surgical strike is also this because like charman's fury it removes your rage.

Baby yeti's chomp anti strategy because it disables aux and gun.




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 0:34:14)

Intimidate is anti strategy because it lowers your damage :P


@Val

You aren't forced to make a specific build to beat them. You just need one that is ready for anything.



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 0:52:48)

@ Dual thrusters

That is impossible since if you have a build that can counter everything that build is overpowered and needs to be nerfed due to it being able to counter every build.

@ Valkrie

Answer me this

But on a serious note, If you know someone is about to rage, you know that rage could possibly beat you, and you have a way to stop it would you actually let your opponent use their rage when you can stop it or delay it?

If you need a turn to heal or to get your rage, and you know an attack is coming and you can use something to make your opponent not use said attack, are you going to just let that person do that and possibly beat you or counter it?

If you debuff someone and they put up a shield (which most of the time overshadows my debuff Unless they used a weak bloodshield, Technician or Reflex boost) And you have a way to counter them do you really think you should just let those shields stay and make it harder on yourself, or get rid of a good part of them?

It may seem unfair but there are tactics that are in the game, and when you have choices you use them not just let your opponent beat you just because you think they are unfair.



Scyze -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 0:54:38)

quote:

There's a core that weakens buffs...
quote:

There's a core that allows gun to attack 2 people.
Why didn't you complain about this last year when these was introduced?

There is a Core that decreases your opponent's chance to block by 7% when you strike. Why not complain about that?
There's a gun out there and its Core has a 5% chance to stun every time you use the gun. Why can't you complain about that?

Why didn't you complain about Chairman's Fury? That's also a game changer.

quote:

Tell me, do people really think this latest promo is any useful if you already have Azreal Gear?
So you're saying there is n point in buying these latest promos? Meh.

You see, even though these Core get spammed by people, it is still helping others to win. In the past, some builds couldn't beat others and now with these Cores, it's possible with a small amount of luck.[:)]


quote:

All of Epicduel's problems with turns and skill would be removed
A big no. Going to be like AQW or other games will ruin fun.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 0:55:32)

@mother1

I meant a flexible build, not literally a God build.



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:03:35)

@ Scyze

Valkyrie did complain about chairman's fury as shown here.

quote:

I have lost countless battles because I got wacked with chairmans fury just before I raged which is ultimately why they won, they delayed my rage.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:32:37)

@ Scyze

Rather than explain why I personally find these cores detestable I'll bring up one thing. Players willingness to purchase this latest promo add on is proof players don't require their gear to get stronger and stronger in order for them to want to purchase said gear. Does this mean they have to be weaker? Well no, but it doesn't HAVE to be stronger every time. Letting powercreep crawl into the game is what cause this game to be as imbalanced as it is.



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:40:03)

@ valkyrieknight

The game wasn't even balanced in the first place since epic duel alpha. I remember players telling me back then the game wasn't balanced and there were overpowered moves (supercharge for TM Diamond blades for Bounty hunter, Etc)

So with the game never being balanced from the start even without promo's being introduced how does promo's make the game which is already imbalanced imbalanced?



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:42:04)

@Val

You also got to take in mind that Azreal's is not a powerful core, but the powerful aux core.

Anyway, some of its counters are yetis, assault bot, high damage output, or a really strong shield.


Lol basically you're saying:

Smoke is OP. I shouldn't be forced to use a shield or assault bot because any strategy should be able to get around it [:-]



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:43:18)

You can still agree that without some of the cores, I'm not saying all the game would be going in the right direction. I honestly did not see much wrong with the Delta Phase other than the varium gear given a significant stat advantage over none varium gear. I was able to tango with many varium players with non varium gear. But they had to make the extra step which neither moved forward or backwards. Now instead of players having varium advantages the skills that were regulated due to 45 ~ 46 energy being the base no whave their chance to shine, such skills are max surgical and tech abused super charge.

@ Duel Thrusters

I have rusty, it doesn't do any justice to have to sacrifice a turn to rid the debuff, does no justice. That 1 turn you spend botting away the robot is just 1 extra turn they spend attacking and getting rage. With the base energy so high many bounty hunters can go about debuffing you and then doing it again once your buff subsides.

Yeti may rid the Aux ( which waste your turn ) but it will not rid the debuff OR the turn you spend botting it.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:51:15)

Every move has it's ups and downs. Like the aux, it does inferior damage.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:56:23)

is a 15% damage cut really allot when players do an average of 20 ~ 30 damage per think? Think about it. That's the same margin as your basic damage range. I don't think its much at all. On a extreme note which I won't promote, I don't think debuffs should do damage. I don't think debuffs should be in the game at all. Many players strategy consist of high debuff, and then mindless attacks afterwards/



Drianx -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 1:57:38)

quote:

I have lost countless battles because I got wacked with chairmans fury just before I raged which is ultimately why they won, they delayed my rage.

This is only a personal opinion, influenced only by the frustration of losing.
Basically your statement is 'I lost because he killed me'.
Derpish.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 2:04:13)

Ugh, you're more of a pain than I thought -.-


Okay let's nerf this aux. Got any balanced ideas? Ok seriously not a lot of people have trouble with this weapon.



Mother1 -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 2:04:48)

@ Valkyrie

When I was coming up I was wishing the assault bot wasn't in the game. because back then the bot made fighting jugs a nightmare. Everytime you debuff them they would use the bot and leave you with a 7-9 debuff when they were already tanky and were pumped with enhancements.

But on another note now that I am reading everything in this thread In all honestly it sounds like

"Please staff get rid of everything that makes me lose or make it so I can counter it without much work so I can win!"



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 2:08:01)

This is none of the sort, my win/lose ratio isn't bad actually. I'm simply pointing out with these cores you cannot balance the game or the task would be very difficult. Just look at all the balance threads.

At the current rate at which this game is going all we're having the devs do is continue to make things weaker and weaker and on occasion something stronger. The reason why things need to be weakend in the first place is because they were made too strong or shouldn't ever have been put in.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 2:12:06)

@Val

Lol what do you want? Get rid of all the cores, remove debuffs, make bloodmage stronger?

This is all really kind-of self centered, really [8|]



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Has Epic Duel Reached its Peak? (8/1/2013 2:13:09)

What I am saying is because of these cores, I don't believe there can be balanced in the game. Is why I was questioning if this game has reached its peak.

Edit : I'm not being bias'd for blood mages sake. I have a level 34 mecenary, a 33 tech and bounty hunter. Unless level 35 is the ultimate experience I not sure what you're trying to say.



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