RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (Full Version)

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GearzHeadz -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/23/2013 23:41:40)

I use mine. I've ran into a good 10-20 people who still have theirs.



Bionic Bear -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/23/2013 23:43:32)

You probably don't have a better sidearm in that case (no offense intended). What use is a 5% chance to stun when you can force someone to strike, however?



GearzHeadz -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/23/2013 23:55:50)

Well for my build, forcing someone to strike isn't that effective... And stun gun is better than most guns.



kosmo -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/24/2013 12:30:58)

Azrael will works completly differnetly to other cores, it affects your possibilites in battle and the whole gameplay, making alot of builds inaviable, in order to counter the core.The only thing I can think of is another nerf to its dmg, maybe 10% more.
And the money you spent for the promo isn t an excuse for it to be that op, I m sure that once it will be here for credits those people that don t want it fixed now, will ask for a nerf.



DarkDevil -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/24/2013 12:47:19)

^ actually nerfing damage done won't do anything since he will already deal less than 10 damage and gain rage so i would say buff the opponent that turn to make up for the inability of doing anything but attack.



kosmo -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/24/2013 12:53:49)

^You might be right, maybe it culd work like a buff-attack, and when using it, randomly one of your stats gets a little buff.
Or maybe it could put into cooldown for one turn all your defensive skills and your forced to attack but with any skill or wep you desire.



Vextur -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 16:52:36)

Well there is a possible solution to remove that problem in battle and that is already in-game. Yeti's special. But for gun its only 2 turns. I suggest to buff that special for, i don't know, 3-4 turns, or make it last whole battle OR make it possible to use it more than once.



Mother1 -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 17:09:19)

@ vextur

The yeti already received a buff in the form of evolution plus buffing this bot to the point where it can take away your weapons for the entire match, increasing the turns it takes away the weapons more making it multi use just because of this one weapon is not a good reason to overpower the bot.

Smoke Bounty hunters who use max shadow arts and ninja reflexes would have a field day with this buff.

Use a high level smoke, then use the yeti's chomp to remove side arm and aux so their opponents are forced to use strike and get possibly blocked. No thanks you.

Besides you forgot about armored roots which is also a counter to this core since by making it impossible to use melee attacks you can strike since strike is a melee move.

However, here is a suggestion that I think would do this core some good. Add a 1 turn warm up to this core. It is crazy that this core doesn't have this especially in 2 vs 2 since in some cases you can get wiped out without even getting a turn because of this.



lionblades -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 19:13:56)

1 turn warmup for azrael will is useless.

No one in 1vs1 uses it their first turn since they debuff first so it wont affect 1vs1 at all

2vs2 the 1 turn cooldown will do nothing since:

Player 1: Debuff
Player 2: Shield
Player 3: Takes away buff
Player 4: heal
2nd turn: Both use azrael will and BAM DEAD

Happened to me more than once in my 10 battles of 2vs2 that I tried out



Mother1 -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 19:54:55)

@ Lionblades

Ever fought against a heavy hitter (strength build) and a support merc/tactical merc or another heavy hitter? While you have never experience people using azreal's will their first turn I have, and many times in this case or others it is used to stop a person from healing when they take a heavy hit only for the other heavy hitter to finish them off.

It is like a strength merc using Maul on you in one vs one stunning you, then using berzerker to finish you off without the chance to prepare. This warm up would prevent that abuse.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 19:57:16)

@Mother1

I can see the Warm-Up greatly affecting this gun in 2v2, but will change nothing in 1v1.



Mother1 -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 20:02:06)

@ Dual thrusters

I made this suggestion thinking about 2 vs 2 not 1 vs 1. I know no one uses it first turn for 1 vs 1 (Unless the person has a really garbage build that you can 2 turn) but in two vs two the fact it doesn't have it make it easily abused early on for quick kills in 2 vs 2.



lionblades -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 21:52:34)

@Mother1

Not to be rude but what are you talking about?
quote:

While you have never experience people using azreal's will their first turn

If you look at my post it says:
quote:

Happened to me more than once in my 10 battles of 2vs2 that I tried out


AND my post says 1 turn won't do anything since players with azrael will also have the torment so if in that 1 turn the partner buffs or heals him/her the player can just azrael torment and use azraels will the next turn right away
Stalling for 1 turn wont affect 1vs1 nor 2vs2 very significantly.



Mother1 -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/29/2013 22:11:22)

@ lionblades

Maybe not for you, but for others it will help depending on build. You might have a build that this won't hurt, while for others it will hurt. Just because this won't help you doesn't mean it won't help others.

Builds that can't take too many hard hits will be helped greatly in 2 vs 2. You may not see it but others will.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/30/2013 10:21:34)

quote:

or the attack becomes unblockable


that would be a bad idea, cos i see many tanky+ strong smoke bounty hunters use it for a very likely block.

quote:

No one in 1vs1 uses it their first turn since they debuff first so it wont affect 1vs1 at all


ever seen a support merc with azrael gun? they use it against people with energy drainers. i have seen this happen many times.



kosmo -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/31/2013 11:03:21)

exactly this core can be used on the 1st mooves to prevent ur opponent from intimidating or emping u, but whatever a cooldown will not solve the problem in 1v1 at all.
some of u can say that the core is easely counterable, and it is, expecially whit bm which can use intimidate, but others classes as focus mercenary or focus bh just cant, and they will find them self loosing alot expecially on glass cannons(tm) that can easely rage on 4th moove;
the real problem whit azrael will its that it totally kills diversity, because in evry GOOD build u do, u must to keep in mind this core and alwaise have a VALID counter to it. (luck is not a counter)



kittycat -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (8/31/2013 23:58:56)

Well a simple solution would be just locking the damage to a number between 7-15 damage or use a formula, such as the more strength you have, the less % of your maximum damage will be dealt.

Percentage: (5 + (100 - (Strength/2))- (DA Bonus*.75)%

To compensate Deadly Aim, those that have Deadly Aim activated will have their damage lowered, but the DA bonus is rounded down.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/8/2013 7:57:06)

Agreed point : Well a lot of people want to play free , not being forced to strike.. , that will just ruin their whole strategy.
Disagreed point: The people paid for this core azrael will..... AFTER delta switched to omega, the enchants refund was just too little and it was like enough robbery.. We dont need another robbery lol. People paid with their real money, for this OP core, so it should stay like this.

Final result = Disagreed / Not supported.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/18/2013 15:45:29)




quote:

You probably don't have a better sidearm in that case (no offense intended). What use is a 5% chance to stun when you can force someone to strike, however?

many people use it for bragging ^_^ its like asking why ppl use beta brutaliser? cos it is epic for show off



DarkDevil -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/19/2013 3:13:25)

quote:

People paid with their real money,
for this OP core, so it should stay
like this.


being paid is not an excuse for OP it could be made balanced if there is downsides.



kittycat -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/19/2013 4:06:34)

They don't want to take the risk of false advertising, but what I believe is that the Devs can lock the damage dealt to about 20% of the gun damage, unaffected by defense and resistance, or the user of gun loses rage for using the strike.



Seteriel -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/20/2013 9:42:02)

The "OPed-ness" of azrael's will might disappear with the introduction of more gun cores.
However, at the moment the core, respectively the balance of it, is something to be thought about.

Something like: the forced player ignores X% of defenses or can't be blocked or has a higher crit chance.
Or reducing the guns damage while using the core.
There is no easy answer to this.



lionblades -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (9/20/2013 19:33:53)

Most likely, the devs are going to nerf this next year after the players and even the promo buyers themselves will complain how it ruined 2vs2 and jugg etc.

Once Azrael gets nerfed after reaching the masses, the devs implement a new OP core promo and the cycle continues.

Just as OP builds have there rise and nerfed fall, another will soon take its place...




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Azrael's forced strike core a new take on balancing (10/1/2013 23:04:56)

I personally think the aux is balanced, for when used you still have roughly half of your shield in effect. Not only that, but it does rather low damage. If it is still not enough, then you can have another buff added to you.

The gun, however is problematic. For Mages, this gun's effect stacks with Deadly Aim, so the 15% damage reduction does nothing at all. It also works with any build, stopping opponents from using a powerful attack or heal, while also damaging them at the same time. They also gain rage from this. We can't just make more strong cores like this, it would cause imbalance to the cores that we already have. To prevent this gun from causing any more trouble, here are my ideas.

Each idea is separately grouped with the lines. Each idea gets more dramatic as you go down.

Make the initial damage 3.

No initial damage, your are just placing the effect on an opponent (like how you would place a shield on yourself) making this gun more tactical to use.

Make the strike cureable with field medic (in 2v2 when your partner is charmed and hasn't had his turn yet)

Make the forced strike activate at the end of the charmed player's turn.

Apply the forced strike to both you and your target. (So you activate the gun. Your opponent is forced to strike, then you are forced to strike).


So now should we nerf this gun? Are any of my above suggestions the right solutions to it? Or maybe this gun is balanced and just try to convince everyone that it is.

However, I sorely believe that making OP gun cores to make this look UP is NOT the answer to balance this weapon.



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