RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Link Master75 -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 2:45:37)

What's the strongest class then?



NatsuDragneels -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 3:22:28)

^ Doomknight, hands down.



WHITE DRAGON MAGE -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 4:22:21)

This was my go to class for most of my time on this game, with its high damage rate it just made very hard battles a lot easier. As for mana consumption my only problem was the healing ability and the activation move for this classes strongest attack, other than that I don't have a problem with its mana consumption, its second strongest move only costs 11 mana points. But its final move is definitely worth the mana cost, for me it does a maximum of over 2700, attacks all enemies and weakens the targeted enemy to evil by 50, so using the second strongest evil move (which will do up to 1250 critical damage after using my kathool's wrath move) in succession of the final move is an excellent strategy to use on bosses. My only complaint with this class is the fact that most of its moves are elemental locked, so fighting using an enemies elemental weakness isn't as effective, but other than that it deserves its title as second strongest class in the game.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 5:59:25)

Just saying, if this class ever gets an art update in the distant future, needs moar tentacles. [:)]



Zork Knight -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 11:57:42)

I used this class for a LONG time before getting Doom Knight... And I still use it, because it's just so much more fun than Blood Rite/Life Carve spam.

And it's related to one of the best sagas in DF, if not the best.

Although, the floating can be annoying sometimes... And I wish there were higher levels of the Tendrils capes and Adept helms.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 13:22:26)

@Zork: Here here to higher level Tendrils!

This is one of my most used classes after RW. It's a glass cannon that can heal a bit. What's not to like?



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/7/2014 15:52:52)

Calling Kathool Adept a glass cannon is not really appropriate, in my opinion. The Kathool Adept Armor was originally branded as a defensive Class and it definitely holds up to that description. Regenerate is (Though costly) nearly as good as enTropy's ridiculously awesome Vampiric Renewal, and Ink Spray's sheer Bonus debuff and shorter cooldown makes it one of the most reliable Blinding Skills in the game. Classes like enTropy or Pyromancer can probably handle that front a touch more reliably, but Kathool Adept is by no means a glass cannon. ;)



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/8/2014 11:34:37)

Maybe "glass cannon" was a slight exaggeration, and KAA might have been considered defensive once upon a time, but calling it defensive now? Lolnope, not compared to today classes. It's still nearly completely all out offence with a few tricks to keep it alive. A really good HoT, a decent blind skill and an okay defence buff skill are all it needs to keep it alive for long enough to slaughter the majority of enemies.

quote:

Ash: Mainly because of the fact that you have a large HoT and it's an Offense class not a Defense class. You're meant to blow through your mana to pay for the fact that all your skills do up 200% damage once you hit level 100.


Talking about the low mana regain Drain has but still, shows that it is mostly an all out attack class with a trick or two to keep it standing long enough to destroy enemies with mind-bending goodness! xD



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/8/2014 13:39:28)

Oh, by no means is it a "defensive Class." The standards DragonLord, Necromancer, and enTropy have set for that kind of Class are far too high. If it seemed I was calling it that, I must apologize for my poor wording.

But neither would I downplay the defensive capability of Kathool Adept so greatly. It was conceived as a defensive Class long ago and the assets are there. Its sheer brute strength may be the main attraction, but Regenerate and Ink Spray are powerful enough to make its defense commendable to a much higher degree than other offensive Classes (Riftwalker, SoulWeaver, etc.). The gap between its offensive and defensive strength is smaller compared to DragonFable's other powerhouses. :)

@below: Yeah, it was my wording. By "holding to the description of a defensive Class," I meant it exhibits the qualities several defensive Classes have, which is different from being one in and of itself.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/9/2014 16:34:56)

Ahhh, yeah it did seem you were calling it defensive xD Maybe I read it wrong!

Yeah, KAA is a great offensive class with decent defensive capabilities, I think the two of us have fully shown the two sides of this class! [:)]



Anra -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/12/2014 22:55:42)

Well... I think Drain Skill is kind of weak. When I use it, I can damage the enemy mp by 94 but I only regenerate 21.



The Jop -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/12/2014 23:02:02)

Drain is pretty bad; it's better to just invest a good amount of stat points in wisdom.



Warmonger DragonJax -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 4:30:12)

@Link master:Its Baron Valrith,the recent boss of mogloween and friday the 13th !



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 5:51:10)

how much dmg do you do with kathool max? (with mad)



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/1/2015 11:51:39)

...So, I couldn't help but notice that in the May 10th 2010 Design Notes post showcasing KAA, that this silhouette was shown previewing the armour. I notice it was originally shown standing and with a different stance and I must ask, would it be possible that some time in the future it could have this base standing position? I'm asking because AoT is a floating class, and the way it was able to get around the "I SPEAK FROM MY CHEST AND BLOCK ALL DIALOGUE" problem was simply to have it standing when not moving or in combat. Obviously this isn't priority or anything and would probably require one of the animators work, but it sure would be a good solution to the problem! Maybe Chrono and Corruptor could get the same treatment if it were possible? Just curious!



deather98 -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/1/2015 12:25:19)

KAA My old friend and greatest ally before gaining the DMK oh the many wars that its helped me fight when in a hurry. the deadly enemies I have farmed with it.... Thank you old friend..





Join....US.......



Subon -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/1/2015 12:34:36)

If it's ever getting a revamp, I want more tentacle attacks.



LadyDoom -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/1/2015 12:58:16)

One of the best classes, with the trinket not so tiny bubbles it can become nearly impossible to get hit.



PusatShrade -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/11/2015 15:54:11)

This armor is arguably the third or even the second best armor in the game. The only issue I see with it is the Drain skill. It should steal far more mana than it currently does. The fact that it steals such low amount of MP makes the skill almost a waste of turn.



crabpeople -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/11/2015 16:01:37)

^Before you invoke Ashendal's wrath I'll just paste this:

question:
quote:

About Kathool Adept

I think the mana drain of it is too little. Um maybe perhaps increasing a little of the amount drained makes it better (almost useless when out of mana).
Also, I can feel that when I use the skill Corrupt then Mind Twist, the damage of Mind Twist weakens.

I like this armor; unique skills, good evasions and cool walking animation. Some disturbance also is it makes you go back to the place you stand when you enter some rooms.


answer:
quote:

Now, as for this question because it's here I'll swap to my Dev hat.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I already buffed the drain as much as possible because of the overall power of the armor. It's running off the same concept as Doomknight, lots of damage but really high mana costs and no direct way to fix that without potions. Kathool deals around 182% damage on all of its skills baseline at level 80. That means that when you see a skill say "deals 100% damage" it doesn't mean 100% weapon damage. It means it's dealing 100% of the SCALED damage so every skill is going to be dealing above 100% weapon damage baseline. Those skills that deal more damage that the 100% scaled damage deal *x amount of that amount. That means that a 120% damage skill on Kathool will deal (Base damage) * 1.2. What does that mean? It means you're dealing above 200% damage on a lot of skills, and really the only mitigating factor of it is that it's element locked on a bunch of things. That doesn't matter for the most part unless you're doing a water quest and we don't do those often.

It is doing lowered damage on Mind Twist because the coding is reversed for some reason and no one reported it for me to go look. That's on my list of things to get fixed on Monday.

I rolled a fix to the size of the placement and collision detection area on the armor a bit ago. Have you tried using it since that fix? I ran it through a bunch of quests where it used to get stuck and it no longer does now.



PusatShrade -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/11/2015 16:44:02)

^I couldn't care less whether anyone will buff it or not. In my opinion, mana drain is almost a useless skill at this point. Nobody will change that thought unless the skill gets buffed more. Oh WAIT! It already was "buffed as much as possible." *smh*



Melissa4Bella -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/11/2015 17:36:53)

Players are more than welcome to believe that a skill is useless, helpful, neutral. Nobody will like everything, and we know this.



Plendamonda2 -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/11/2015 22:29:36)

I love KAA, used to be the class I used most. The saga it came from was also amazing. Everybody loves Kathool lol
Class is powerful, as everybody has said, it carried me through a lot of the game.
I haven't played the class a whole lot since all of the other reworks though, I'll have to start using it some more...
It somehow feels...outdated(?) compared to the other classes, like I don't use a lot of the skills or something.
I don't really remember using a lot of the skills on the left side, just the stun and shield sometimes but meh.
Most likely I just used the class to much and got bored of it, still an amazing class.



Talion -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/12/2015 0:28:10)

Worth every single DC it costs. It's the third strongest armor of the game just behind Time Killer.

I'd love seeing more armors with this much power!



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= Kathool Adept Armor Discussion Thread (8/12/2015 4:37:16)

Kathool was amazing back in the day and I used it lots back then, however these days its one of my least used classes. While the class is in no way bad it is definitely nowhere near being one of the top few classes any more in my opinion.

The main problem I have with kathool adept is its stun and blind. These moves do almost no damage while the stun is a single hit that costs at least twice the mana of a normal stun. If the stun cost ~35 mana and both did regular attack damage (100 - 180% damage type deal) then it might be but at the moment using any form of defence drastically lowers damage per turn rates.

As for kathool's damage it is great but by far not the best, classes with build up damage like ascendant and soulweaver can rival its power both first turn and over a number of turns. As for its multi and standard first turn nuke, they are really no better than other classes. The multi is an element locked version of the ascended chicken cow armour with a higher cooldown while its nuke is element locked and does similar damage to many tier 3 nukes. These are both fine as they have relatively normal mana costs.

I'll assume its healing move which is nearly 4 times the cost of entropy's and inferior in effect (just) is beyond extreme in mana cost to balance the class as a whole and not the move.

As for Kathool itself, its not the strongest move in the game but with its 50% damage to both other targets, only 3 turns for max damage and -50 evil it clearly warrants its insane mana cost.

Finally it makes for a reasonably powerful hybrid class and the mana drain of 5% sounds fine as you should be investing a fair bit into wis and should only be offsetting the smaller moves.

Honestly I don't see the class as worthy of its reputation these days unless the damage is fixed across the stun, blind and if i've missed any doing less than regular attack damage (those are main two) and unless the mana cost of the stun and heal are halved I doubt I would use the class even then.



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