Juggernaut will always go first. (Full Version)

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King FrostLich -> Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 6:22:41)

The first player ALWAYS goes first since the level gap is very huge. Look at the leaderboards, even tanks, pure offensive tanks stand no chance against 2 players that can heal with little hp and make a huge difference. Juggernaut became unpopular thanks to the removal of enhancements back in Delta and barely anyone plays it except the low levels who farmed 20k credits.


The difference why low level juggs succeed compared to high/max leveled juggernauts is because players that are still less than level 19 do very little damage while the level 25-27's can afford their defenses equal to that of the damage of the level 19 and below which is why they deal 3's. For a high level juggernaut, 2 of his/her opponents deal very strong damage in just 2 turns giving the juggernaut no time to heal. What we simply need is to make the juggernaut ALWAYS go first despite the level gap and support difference. This way, it is still fair since the players fighting the jugg also deal huge damage in just a short amount of time.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 6:29:47)

quote:

Look at the leaderboards, even tanks, pure offensive tanks stand no chance against 2 players that can heal with little hp and make a huge difference. Juggernaut became unpopular thanks to the removal of enhancements back in Delta and barely anyone plays it except the low levels who farmed 20k credits.


Im a tank and i find jug very easy, i could win it everyday if i had the time. So by just saying that i can rule out this opinion. And jug is still kinda very popular, it just dosent take much to win.


quote:

For a high level juggernaut, 2 of his/her opponents deal very strong damage in just 2 turns giving the juggernaut no time to heal. What we simply need is to make the juggernaut ALWAYS go first despite the level gap and support difference. This way, it is still fair since the players fighting the jugg also deal huge damage in just a short amount of time.



This is why you play a defensive strategy instead of an aggressive strategy. Making a jugg go first all the time will cause for a revamp in the forumal and right now nothing it wrong with it.



King FrostLich -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 6:34:28)

^I'm sure your a merc that has pure capability of tanking, spam bunker and static smash as long as you want. For other classes, it is very difficult to cope up with tank builds that do low damage. Since merc is the only class that can easily do this along with caster mage, energy tank builds are the only thing capable of doing juggernaut as easy as they want but it isn't easy for every tank build for every class nor is it for aggressive builds.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 9:21:05)

quote:

Look at the leaderboards, even tanks, pure offensive tanks stand no chance against 2 players that can heal with little hp and make a huge difference. Juggernaut became unpopular thanks to the removal of enhancements back in Delta and barely anyone plays it except the low levels who farmed 20k credits.


So you are saying that Juggernaut became unpopular with higher levels because the sheep they fight can now fight back? Guess what Juggernaut was never meant to be easy in the first place. Varium advantage basically made Juggernaut a few win factory if you had the right gear enhanced. As for why Juggernaut is easy at lower level is is because unlike the higher level players lower levels lack experience, and the equipment to fight back. If anything Juggernaut's level limit (starting level) Needs to be increased to keep this from happening.




lionblades -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 17:11:20)

quote:

Im a tank and i find jug very easy, i could win it everyday

Cyber Dream, what is your win ratio for only Omega for jugg right now?



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 17:18:25)

with my bounty focus build it is atleast 95% because it is easy as bounty focus tank with IA. it helps finish and turn it around late game. so yeah, as a merc i was okay at jugg. merc is hard for jugging. best class for jugging are those with offensive debuffs. cos then they force enemies to heal first round, or die.



lionblades -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/24/2013 17:27:17)

^dude nice
highest I ever got as a lv35 BH was 90% in Omega as a 3 focus build max tank



King FrostLich -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/26/2013 22:30:10)

quote:

As for why Juggernaut is easy at lower level is is because unlike the higher level players lower levels lack experience, and the equipment to fight back.If anything Juggernaut's level limit (starting level) Needs to be increased to keep this from happening.



You mean it's much better to increase the level gap than just a first turn for the juggernaut? Give me a break, as if the first player can do a stun move then you're forced to heal and then get butchered? First turn is what this change I'm proposing, not a decrease of level which is far worse than that.

quote:

with my bounty focus build it is atleast 95% because it is easy as bounty focus tank with IA. it helps finish and turn it around late game. so yeah, as a merc i was okay at jugg. merc is hard for jugging.


Indeed, BH I believe can be the best class to defeat players in juggernaut because of a debuffing skill with bloodlust combined. Classes without debuffs require to keep hitting with the risk of not healing until one of the players is down to avoid getting raged twice. Reroute is nearly useless because the moment you heal, you need to have other skills that do damage using your mana and if you use too much, you might not have enough to heal yourself the next 4 turns.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/27/2013 5:18:29)

Here's a strategy to win in Juggernaut, don't use blood mage.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/27/2013 6:44:33)

@ King

You missunderstood. I was talking about raising the starting level you could be a juggernaut. The start level is level 20 I was thinking about making it level 30. Anyone who already has the card it will be disabled until you get to level 30. This way lower levels who don't have experience can play 2 vs 2 and gain their experience and cores, and Juggernaut's get the challenge they are suppose to and not get free wins.



King FrostLich -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/27/2013 11:00:18)

quote:

Here's a strategy to win in Juggernaut, don't use blood mage.


I'm sorry, but I'm capable of doing 80%-90% as a juggernaut BM right now. 2 days ago, I was 2nd place at juggernaut with 80.3% with 78 wins. The only problem is first turn in juggernaut even when I go second or if other people go second, it requires 47 - 93+ support to go first. Yes they are low levels, and they tend to use debuffs at the first turn as if every tank can outlast it. [8|]


quote:

The start level is level 20 I was thinking about making it level 30. Anyone who already has the card it will be disabled until you get to level 30. This way lower levels who don't have experience can play 2 vs 2 and gain their experience and cores, and Juggernaut's get the challenge they are suppose to and not get free wins.


I don't see why low leveled juggernauts need to be removed despite them having higher win ratios. Sure, it's difficult but most of them get 70% - 80% and are mostly mercs(I'm always watching the juggernaut boards from time to time) though there are very few bounty hunters that get slightly good ratios than mercs(average I compared has a margin of 64.7%, mercs have 71.2%, mage lacks more data) but only do a few amount of wins compared to high levels that try to get alot.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/27/2013 17:19:15)

I'm totally up for this.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/28/2013 19:44:23)

@ King Frostlich

Using what BM build? Who doesn't go tank in Juggernaut? They're too many skilled players under level 30 that can easily mop the floor with a juggernaut, you must be getting allot luckier than I with match-ups.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/28/2013 20:33:31)

I would actually support making the jugg go first. Even though the jugg goes second all the time, if not first, you're still going to be placed on the defensive, particularly when fighting against debuff classes. If the jugg always goes first the jugg has the option to go as an offensive jugg or to stay on the defensive.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/28/2013 20:38:18)

I support this aswell, when you're facing skilled pvpers its so hard to win juggernaut, emp grenade, kamakazi players ( the ones with a extremely effective debuff ) are all too common.



King FrostLich -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/28/2013 22:55:06)

quote:

@ King Frostlich

Using what BM build? Who doesn't go tank in Juggernaut? They're too many skilled players under level 30 that can easily mop the floor with a juggernaut, you must be getting allot luckier than I with match-ups.


The build I use looks relatively weak in 1v1 and 2v2 but does good work in juggernaut. All I can say is, it does not use deadly aim and can still defeat people decently yet can be risky.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Juggernaut will always go first. (9/29/2013 13:21:15)

juggernaut is easy for tlm bounty bm and a little easy for tecmage. for tecmage, just go dex caster with a level 5 overload and max plasma rain, max reroute and rest to assimilate. for tlm just go max reroute, 5 heal max armour and a 5 surgical, with 6 double strike. for bh go five focus. for bm go 4 focus tank with good str( high bludgeon and deadly aim) so you can bludgeon then gun so they have to heal so they dont get 2 shotted.



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