ED in its current state (Full Version)

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wireclub1990 -> ED in its current state (10/11/2013 1:47:23)

Ok firstly I made a account cause I felt so strongly that certain things had to be said, Also I'd like to point out this is not an attempt at trolling .

Ok first thing omega as a whole we all know that was a bad idea at this point the server numbers alone point that out and the general attitude in game a lot of people clearly have left or aren't staying on much above 5 minutes . few simple things you could do to fix this

1) the luck factor has to go ridiculous amounts of luck are occurring at least once a fight usually more like 2-3 times blocks with no dex deflects with no tech crits with no support etc. etc. . Also we seem to have gone back to beta where the first turn is so significant that with the right build no matter what you do if you get that first turn you cannot loose I've tried it its unstoppable and these builds are absolutely ridiculous and should get obliterated but this is how poor balance is right now .

My next point the modes 1v1 you will face the same build almost every fight 2v2 you'll get a l29-32 partner vs. 2 35s or 36s at least 30-40% of your fights if your not lucky enough to be 34 and 30 vs 2 35s I've had it . juggernaut is suicide if your level 30-34 the range in all 3 modes is so ridiculous you may as well not bother it needs to be fixed I know people will complain 35's will have to wait longer but most of those have left anyway now and the thing is if things stay the way they are most people are going to quit before they get to 36 anyway and the ones already there will leave due to the luck factors and other issues with omega their are other problems . And these need fixing fast balance range and the modes overall or else I fear the server numbers will keep heading south and seeing 200 players on is going to be even more common then it is now .

On a side note I tended to read the forums quite often to see what was going on I noticed its even lost its activity here its sad.



martinsen5 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 1:57:45)

Yeah well you're not the first to say this. That being said, personally I really don't have that big of a problem with the current balance and "luck factors" as I've found a build that works pretty well and is fun to use. I'm sure you can too, or take a break until balance is back to your liking. Changes will be made after the war, though.



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 2:48:46)

quote:

1) the luck factor has to go ridiculous amounts of luck are occurring at least once a fight usually more like 2-3 times blocks with no dex deflects with no tech crits with no support etc. etc. . Also we seem to have gone back to beta where the first turn is so significant that with the right build no matter what you do if you get that first turn you cannot loose I've tried it its unstoppable and these builds are absolutely ridiculous and should get obliterated but this is how poor balance is right now.


Said this before and say it again

Having low dex/tech =/= you won't block or deflect. Also remember they added cores to increase these factors as well so it can happen. As for the last part I can agree. Thanks to rabble making support go first almost always again strength support builds came into the rising. If they go first (which is almost always) they can clobber you unless you get several luck factors. Most of the time if they don't go first I beat them.

quote:

My next point the modes 1v1 you will face the same build almost every fight 2v2 you'll get a l29-32 partner vs. 2 35s or 36s at least 30-40% of your fights if your not lucky enough to be 34 and 30 vs 2 35s I've had it . juggernaut is suicide if your level 30-34 the range in all 3 modes is so ridiculous you may as well not bother it needs to be fixed I know people will complain 35's will have to wait longer but most of those have left anyway now and the thing is if things stay the way they are most people are going to quit before they get to 36 anyway and the ones already there will leave due to the luck factors and other issues with omega their are other problems . And these need fixing fast balance range and the modes overall or else I fear the server numbers will keep heading south and seeing 200 players on is going to be even more common then it is now.


Well for 1 vs 1 what do you expect? this has been happening for the longest time now. People want quick kill builds that give results and would sooner use an overused build that gives results then use be creative and possibly lose. It comes with the "if I am not winning I am not having fun mentality. Everyone wants to win and unless you can change this there will be no changes in builds.

As for the juggernaut thing, Juggernaut is suppose to be a harder battle mode and was never suppose to be easy. Only reason it was before omega was because of varium advantage and enhancements. It made anyone non varium player fighting varium jugs punching bags. Now thanks to the removal of these Juggernaut at higher levels is harder like it was originally suppose to be. However for lower levels it is a walk in the park especially for real low level jugs fighting teen level players.

For 2 vs 2 The crazy pairings like that are happening due to the latest filter the staff added for the war. The legion vs exile filter. From the start it was a bad idea, and it makes pairings for partners even worse. without it you had a better chance of getting fair fights but now as long as their is a 6 level gap at the most it will crap out anyone.

For the other part for suggested change nope don't support. Last I checked the filter only spit's out lower level players as a last resort which means that it only does this when no one of your own level is available to fight. This right here tells you that there aren't enough players as said level to pair them off with someone and by cutting the range as you already posted out it will increase wait times for all but for cap level and close to cap level players the most.

I know you must know this, for levels 1-5 and 32-36 those players have a smaller level range to choose from unlike 6-31. 1-5 lucky for them wouldn't hurt by this cut because those levels are not only where more players are at, but if this wasn't the case they have NPC that they can fight so they can get EXP to level up. Level's 32-36 however don't have either.

32 - 36 is a minority group meaning there are fewer of them to go around, and they don't have NPC to give them EXP. 35's and 36's especially have the smallest level ranges for being minorities. Seriously if there were enough players to go around for the get go do you think we would have these unfair pairings level wise? Do you think we would have level 31's and 30's complaining about how they have to fight level 35's and 36's? I think not. Plus cutting range will upset higher levels since if there isn't anyone within their range to fight they won't get fights and that takes away from their enjoyment.

It is why they didn't cut the range in the first place since there are some players who want to be able to get fights without waiting. Everyone doesn't agree with the whole idea of "waiting for a fair fight when said fair fight may never come." Some people want to play, and making those players wait too long will cause them to quit making the population even smaller. A compromise for both sides would have to be made not just a change that will make one group happy at the expense of another.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 15:53:05)

quote:

For the other part for suggested change nope don't support. Last I checked the filter only spit's out lower level players as a last resort which means that it only does this when no one of your own level is available to fight. This right here tells you that there aren't enough players as said level to pair them off with someone and by cutting the range as you already posted out it will increase wait times for all but for cap level and close to cap level players the most.


and their never will be with the modes the way they are not many people will stay with luck so rampant and the level scaling the way it is all the modes are torture level 29-33 and the levels take far to long torture some one on a game and a very low % of players are going to stick it out to 35/36 which is why the problems here . So I guess we accept the fact the higher level player pool is going to keep decreasing and the server numbers are going to keep going down . Or we do something about it which will hurt the higher levels in the short run but massively benefit everyone in the long run , I know one thing and one thing only things the way they are is a guaranteed path to disaster .



nico0las -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 19:55:48)

I'm just going to quote you on different points you addressed and reply to each rather than just give one solid response. I feel like this will be much more effective.


quote:

Ok firstly I made a account cause I felt so strongly that certain things had to be said, Also I'd like to point out this is not an attempt at trolling .

There is a big difference between just saying something and ranting.

quote:

Ok first thing omega as a whole we all know that was a bad idea at this point

Disagreed. If you were around for Delta you'd know it's almost funny how much better it is than Delta. At least now the "balance" you talk about later actually exists.

quote:

the luck factor has to go ridiculous amounts of luck are occurring at least once a fight

Were it not for the luck factor, every player would have a strength build to dish out the maximum amount of damage in the minimum amount of time possible. This is NOT balance. Ironically enough, luck is the only balance there really is because luck is fair.
It doesn't pick sides or favorites. I'm sure there are times when you've gotten ridiculously lucky.

quote:

My next point the modes 1v1 you will face the same build almost every fight 2v2 you'll get a l29-32 partner vs. 2 35s or 36s at least 30-40% of your fights if your not lucky enough to be 34 and 30 vs 2 35s I've had it

Of course people will drift to a certain build to win. 1v1s are about victory, not about having fun. There isn't a "fun-o-meter" on every character page, but there is a win count. Be original, make a good build, and start winning. Don't just complain because you're not creative enough.
On what you said about 2v2, players need to actually PLAY the game to reach level 35 and 36. If you don't let these players level up, you will NEVER have level 35-36 partners. I'm sure you're that one guy who always complains about his partners and eventually quits rather than actually try to win.


The points you highlighted are all very true and if you really do read the forums you'll know we've been talking about this for a long time. There have been countless threads created to talk about each subject you highlighted and your ranting doesn't actually solve anything. You should post suggestions and constructive criticism rather than complaints, at least those can be beneficial. The biggest problem this game has is how childish and whiny the community actually is.

If it seems like I'm trying to mini-mod, I'm sorry I just felt really strongly about this :/
Again, most of what you said is true, but ranting won't help.



Bionic Bear -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 20:04:59)

quote:

Of course people will drift to a certain build to win. 1v1s are about victory, not about having fun. There isn't a "fun-o-meter" on every character page, but there is a win count. Be original, make a good build, and start winning. Don't just complain because you're not creative enough.

Recently posted in another thread about something similar to this. People will always use the glass cannon/super-fast build because it guarantees wins, is fast, and people like seeing big, juicy numbers on their screens.



kosmo -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 20:12:48)

i dont agree on the balance being so broken,omega is cool to me;

but u are right when u say tht the matchmaking is rlly broken, it doesnt matter if players leave, the important thing is to keep actrcting new gamers, they will support the game.
right now u have fun untill lvl 30, from there on 60-70% of ur matches are against a lvl35-36, and u will end up loosing evrything.
who cares about why this happens (lack of players), it must get fixed, we cant complain there are no ppl online and then say we dont wont a fair matchmaking just because
"we dont wont to wait to find a match".....



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 20:41:55)

@ Kosmo

Those who actually don't want to wait a long time do or don't you remember the uproar the forum were in when that first legion vs exile filter just came in the first time. Were there a mass of people complaining about the unfair match ups, or where there threads about players complaining about the wait times? When I was reading it was the later meaning as much as people want this fix they don't want to wait either. A solution would be something that makes both sides happy and what you are suggesting will they do will make the people complaining about fighting higher levels happy but at the same time will upset those same higher levels due to them having to wait longer or worst to wear not getting a fight at all.

A better solution would be to lower the level curve at higher levels while increasing it at lower levels to balance it out. As OP already explained part of the reason why people give up is also the level curve needed to get to the higher levels. If the level curve at higher levels it would make those players who give up due to it feeling impossible push on.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 22:25:39)

quote:

Disagreed. If you were around for Delta you'd know it's almost funny how much better it is than Delta. At least now the "balance" you talk about later actually exists.


The masses clearly disagree with your entire post the main point being in the quote. If you disagree with me please explain to me why the server numbers are lower then they ever were in delta or even gamma infact the only time I've ever felt the numbers were as low as they are now is early beta when there was only one server and you couldn't even see the server numbers so they could of been highly something went horribly long with omega and aside for the first few days after a release the server numbers continue to plummet down . I've seen it as low as 200 far to often something must be done to save epic duel whilst we still can omega flopped with the masses the time to do something to win back players fast!



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 22:36:17)

@ Wireclub1990

Omega was a good think for free to play players. Back in delta if you didn't have varium 9 times out of 10 you were a punching bag. Especially for varium players at the higher levels. That was also one of the major reasons players were quitting back then.

You had the following.

1 Match ups being unfair
2 Non varium players being made punching bags by varium players due to power creep and stat advantage
3 As you mentioned the high level curve at higher levels that overwhelmed those who weren't hardcore players

As it stand now thanks to omega number 2 on that list is gone. However at the same time by doing this it was in a sense spitting in the faces of those who supported the game financially which cause many of the older players to quit. Add the other changes that many others didn't like along with existing problems and you got what we have in omega.




kosmo -> RE: ED in its current state (10/11/2013 22:41:34)

weireclub1990@
i agree whit him, i love omega, i like the balance and all the changes to make the game more fair;
unfurtunatly ur right on the servers falling down (recently improoved a bit), for what ik "veterans" who left will not come back, they dislike too much the changes that has been made, but new players can be encouraged to stay, and what they want is very simple:
a decent ratio tht doesnt make them feel like nubs.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/12/2013 9:38:32)

4 fights in a row I just got a l29 partner against 2 35s I'm 35 the first and second time we got it close cause they went for me first . The 3rd they went for him took him out faster then anything I tried everything could not make up for that 6 lvl gap with all 3 people decent builds for their level we just never stood a fair chance to begin with the 35s were smart . you can't win without extreme luck dunno how the 4th would of turned out I refreshed and its what I shall do in future I'm not putting up with it anymore why should I have to pull mine and my partners wait desperately trying to make up for a lowb its not fun . I'm done with fights with the odds stacked against me so large it ain't even funny 1v1 you fight all the same build juggernaut is suicide . 2v2 I get lowb way to often making it far to hard to win generally it gets close but that advantage you just cant get past the finishing line. level 35-36 is bad enough as it is please make one of the modes more fun and less like a job PLEASE



nico0las -> RE: ED in its current state (10/12/2013 17:30:16)

@wireclub1990

quote:

The masses clearly disagree with your entire post the main point being in the quote. If you disagree with me please explain to me why the server numbers are lower then they ever were in delta or even gamma infact the only time I've ever felt the numbers were as low as they are now is early beta when there was only one server and you couldn't even see the server numbers so they could of been highly something went horribly long with omega and aside for the first few days after a release the server numbers continue to plummet down .


The vast majority of players who remain now are F2P. You're right; a lot of players left, but these were all VARIUM PLAYERS. The vast majority of my friends in ED retired around Omega because finally, the thrill of crushing everyone in sight was gone (obviously this was not the only reason, but I spoke to a few of them and this is basically what they told me). You're talking about statistics when you don't actually know anything aside from the fact that whenever you go online, there aren't that many players online.

Secondly, you're complaining about 2v2 a lot. I think it's worth noting that there have been MANY situations where I've lost to a single level 35 even though his/her partner quit out. The time I'll never forget is when Magical Herb crushed me and a friend of mine in a 2v2 even though his level 30 partner had quit out in the first round. Just because your partner quit out doesn't mean you lost the game; if anything you should have a build that you can win with regardless of whether your teammate is around or not. The instant you depend on something other than yourself, your skill tree, and your build, you have already lost.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 1:02:19)

If their is a build that's capable of beating two people your own level with the same stats same everything without hard core luck it should be nerfed immediately its OP its called 2v2 for a reason both players should pull their weight.



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 1:32:33)

@ Wireclub1990

I don't agree with that because at one point in time my build did do that in omega. I was going against two players at my own level, however the two of them had garbage builds. Their defense was nonexistant, and even though it was close I ended up beating them.

Should my build get nerfed since I was able to beat them without my partners help just because they had bad builds that my build could counter?



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 1:53:04)

so its okay that most of the time I get a l29 partner vs 2 35s because they've gone through all that to get to 35 and both of them might just have builds that bad they're capable of loosing a 2v1 or I might get that insanely lucky I can make up for double my stats double my turns double my healing power and double my rage . Sounds fair they obliterate the lowb which isn't hard no matter what you do then 2v1 you game over before you started in most cases.



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 4:22:04)

@Wirelessclub1990

You basically said if a build in 2 vs 2 can beat two players at the same level it without a partner it needs to be nerfed. That was why I said I disagreed with this because there are times you can get two players who are basically weak against your build and you counter, or in my cause both had garbage builds.

I never mentioned anything about low level players and even then if they can snyc well with your build then or has a build advantage over your opponent can make up for the low level disadvantage. I have gotten low level players before many times and have won with them, or come real close where we lost due to one ill time luck factor (Example person use's azreal's will on me just before I had rage forcing me to strike hoping for a block. If he didn't block he would lose, I come to strike he get what he needed and I lost)

My point being is that we all get bad partners since we can't choose who we get if you can't deal with who you get and can't work with who you get then as you said before you should just leave 2 vs 2.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 4:25:43)

and fight all the same build in 1v1 or struggle to get a balanced fight in juggernaut either . I understand what your saying though I should do what most of done and lose faith in this game contribute to the decline in activeness and rarely play or just all out quit appears to be what everyone else is doing honestly I can't blame them omega the way it is . No ones safe from the borked factors in any mode



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 4:40:52)

@ Wirelclub1990

I play 2 vs 2 a lot myself and there are many times where we get a fair fight level wise only to be at a disadvantage build wise. There have been many times where I have had the level advantage but my opponents who are lower leveled have the build advantage and build advantage as I said before can make up for level disadvantage.

Also I never said lose faith in the game either. you are complaining about your something that happens to everyone in this case bad luck, cause you seem to be on the short end of the stick each and every fight with a crappy partner in 2 vs 2 and because of this you want it changed.

Personally if I had my way there would be no level gap, and everyone would always fight their level no higher or no lower this way no one could moan about "This isn't fair he had a level advantage over me that is why I lost!" However as said before the player base is so small that this would have negative back lash on certain players do to not having enough to go around.

They set up the engine so it will search for you level first! then after a period of time if they can't find anyone (which seems to be the case for you a lot) they go higher or lower to find someone to start the fight. They know while people do want fair fights, they also know people don't want to wait for fights and just want to duel and until a compromise is made the system won't get changed.

But in all honestly if they were going to lower the level range they should have done it when the player base was large (In other words years ago) when the backlash wouldn't have stung rather then make changes now when we have little to no one. Cause as said before while unfair matches would make people quit the same could be said of not getting matches at all.

I did make a suggestion based on your reasons why we have so few lower levels to help with this problem. Hopefully they will read it and listen.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 6:56:19)

quote:

@ Wirelclub1990

I play 2 vs 2 a lot myself and there are many times where we get a fair fight level wise only to be at a disadvantage build wise. There have been many times where I have had the level advantage but my opponents who are lower leveled have the build advantage and build advantage as I said before can make up for level disadvantage.


Man Mother I never see you lol~



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 13:29:06)

What time are you on in game? We won't see each other is we are on different times. But also while I do 2 vs 2 I also do one vs one as well to get capture points in game a bit faster when they are low.



nico0las -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 17:15:10)

@wireclub1990

It's complaints like yours that get builds nerfed in the first place. If we didn't nerf all the old builds (Strength BH, Support mage, Caster Mage, Berzerker Blood Mage, Support merc, Tank CH, the list goes on) we wouldn't be in the position we are now.
Complaints like yours took away half the tools we had to work with as far as balance is concerned. Rather than complain, why don't you slap together a build that actually WIN?

I would also like to note I just destroyed two level 34 variums in a 2v2 with a level 29 partner who quit out in the first round. I'm using a caster mage, so you see it isn't some absurdly overpowered build.

Mother1 said something that I would like to highlight because it was such a good comment:
quote:

build advantage as I said before can make up for level disadvantage

The best players are the best because they make good builds and they KNOW how their builds work. I've 1v1d Deathnightmare some 25 times and I've only beaten him once. I could blame it on luck, or gear, but at the end of the day he's one of the best because HE IS GOOD. The builds he uses and his understanding of the game are the reason he has one of the highest win rates in this game.
Levels don't define how good you are, builds do. I'm sure you use a completely unoriginal build and rely entirely on the gear you have, but here you are complaining nonetheless. Learn to build before you complain.

@Below Oh you mean the caster mage I've had since the middle of Delta? Definitely overpowered, oh DEFINITELY. It's a build I've been using since WAY before Omega started. If it's powerful now, well that's because I made it that way.



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 19:17:08)

^ Yup that good damn build 80% atleast of all the fights I play in 1v1 I'm up against it even 2v2 its almost in every battle . To a point I can't stay logged in more then 5 fights anymore .

Its not OP though and it doesn't work far too effectively . Most people are using Bm's with that build because it doesn't work better then the largest majority of any other bm build can offer and any other class can offer it sucks that's why everyone's using it. Don't do anything about it everyone should stop complaining the largest majority of the player base should stay with that build see how that works out for ya people who think their is nothing wrong with it.

same pretty much with 2v2 its fine that fights should be unfair I should be expected to take on 2 people with double my stats rage heal because I got a lowb that ran or with a build that bad it was impossible to work with . I know how to use my build but funny thing so do m,ost people 35 without hardcore luck you aint beating 2 people your own level .But if 2v2 stays the way it is with omega the way it is I suspect 2v2 will lose popularity on mass juggernaut already has and people are complaining about repetitiver builds in 1v1 . But sure leave things the way they are see where that gets us . No modes that aren't ridiculous hm



Mother1 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 19:58:30)

quote:

^ Yup that good damn build 80% atleast of all the fights I play in 1v1 I'm up against it even 2v2 its almost in every battle . To a point I can't stay logged in more then 5 fights anymore


Said it before and I will say it again. People care more about winning than anything else because most of them fell if they aren't winning they aren't having fun. With this in mind they look for what gives results and when they see that copy it. It sounds like to me you want to force people to play something they don't want to play just so you can get variety but sadly variety doesn't work like that. People have to want to be diverse and if they want to use the same build you can't force them to do otherwise it is there choice.

quote:

Its not OP though and it doesn't work far too effectively . Most people are using Bm's with that build because it doesn't work better then the largest majority of any other bm build can offer and any other class can offer it sucks that's why everyone's using it. Don't do anything about it everyone should stop complaining the largest majority of the player base should stay with that build see how that works out for ya people who think their is nothing wrong with it.


People are using this build because they see it gives results, and would rather use a build that gives them results rather then search of a different build at the expense of losing. How hard is that to understand. That same build isn't overpowered it is overused. There is a big difference between the two. I see that build a lot in 1 vs 1 and it is so predictable with most that I win more times than I lose when I fight that build since I know how to counter it. Plus many other players have found ways to counter this build which proves that it isn't overpowered. The only way it is overpowered is if no one could beat the build without extreme luck or fighting as the same build which isn't the case.

Problem I see here is that too many people who don't want to use this build would rather have the staff change something because they can't beat it rather than find a counter to it. It is because this has happened so much why people just use the same builds over and over again. Complainers who don't want to find counters are the main cause of why those who do adapt well get punished. It isn't fair in the least to be honest.

quote:

same pretty much with 2v2 its fine that fights should be unfair I should be expected to take on 2 people with double my stats rage heal because I got a lowb that ran or with a build that bad it was impossible to work with . I know how to use my build but funny thing so do m,ost people 35 without hardcore luck you aint beating 2 people your own level .But if 2v2 stays the way it is with omega the way it is I suspect 2v2 will lose popularity on mass juggernaut already has and people are complaining about repetitiver builds in 1v1 . But sure leave things the way they are see where that gets us . No modes that aren't ridiculous hm


You are acting like this happens all the time and only to you. you don't think this doesn't happen to others? Cause guess what it has happened to me, and I am willing to bet that it has happened to everyone in this thread. Also just because you haven't don't it before doesn't mean others didn't. While it is unlikely to happen most of the time it does happen when you have a build advantage over two players and their builds are trash. If I had the footage of me doing it in omega I would post it to prove that under certain circumstances it isn't impossible to do this.

However as I said before this happens to everyone! Be it they get a partner who has a level disadvantage or paired off with someone with a level balance but has a build disadvantage. No matter what fight you go into you will either have an advantage in battle or a disadvantage. In my last under leveled fight I was fight a level 36 and 35 and my partner was a level 30. However in this case my partner had a build advantage over the level 35 and in the end we came out on top of these two without luck factors helping up.

From what I am reading of your posts it sounds like you are gripping about bad luck more than anything, and I have to ask you a question. If all these things were the decline of epic duel then why is it that when we are in omega that is it showing the decrease in population where in the other phases it wasn't when these same problems were happening? I mean if these were the problems that made the population decrease why wasn't it shown in epic duel alpha, Beta, Gamma, or Delta?



wireclub1990 -> RE: ED in its current state (10/13/2013 20:41:02)

^the other phases had a more pay to win atmosphere meaning that it was far easier to get out of a unfair battle alive hell even if you didn't pay and had a insane amount of credits granted in a lot of cases most none vars were poorly equipped making a fight with a var vs 2 non vars even if the var got a lowb it was a relatively easy win .

What they did was fix fix the balance between players without fixing the balance in the modes specifically 2v2 / When I say balance I mean between p2p-f2w on no other front is the balance fixed . What they effectively did was put everyone on a pretty much level playing field because people were frustrated with the balance between non var- var what they failed to realise was in doing this they inflated the advantage / power level gives you killing one balance issue to replace it with another to upset players



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