We need to get more players involved in the forums. (Full Version)

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Cyber Dream -> We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 18:29:56)

We really need to get more players involved in the fourms. Only a minority of us are really making suggestions, deciding, , discussing the balance and changes in ED. We need EVERYONE to do that! How about make a screen or something encouraging players to sign up and help shape the game?



lionblades -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 18:37:00)

Well if its only balance an easier way would be to implement more Rabblefroth polls and questions could range from:

What is the strongest class right now?

What core is the most powerful?

etc.

I do agree there needs to be more forumers, but at the same time Rabble-polls need to be utilized the the max for best representation



Scyze -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 18:53:19)

@lionblades,
You do realize that poll will bring up a lot of biased opinions, right? Polls held in-game will barely reflect the truth. If someone hates a particular build, they might say that Class is the strongest when in fact, it could be the weakest Class.
I'll tell you that the Developers will know which Classes are doing better than others.

Some players might not even like to be here on the Forums. It might be boring for them. [;)]



Chosen 0ne -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:08:16)

Theres a balance tracker right?



lionblades -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:10:13)

@Scyze
quote:

poll will bring up a lot of biased opinions

You do realize this forum's balance thread also has a lot of biased opinions right? Right now the forum only encompasses a fraction of the players in game. A Rabble-poll has been implemented before with success. Also, a poll is much much more easier for the players opinions to be expressed rather than making a forum account, verifying email etc.



Ranloth -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:16:41)

Poll is a poll. One option per account, and it offers very small amount of feedback. Whether it's biased or not, it's still valid. What you can do as a higher-up is to approve or disapprove of the feedback - i.e. when making balance changes, is x person the right one to listen or should I disagree (example: should we buff Smoke to -100 Dex or is current one fine?).



Scyze -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:17:35)

@lionblades,
Yet here on the Forums, we can discuss one's opinion. In-game, we can't. (Unless I've not been told.) We can continually discuss their opinion on why its bad or predict what the change will do.
quote:

A Rabble-poll has been implemented before with success.
Which one?

quote:

Also, a poll is much much more easier for the players opinions to be expressed rather than making a forum account, verifying email etc.
Well then... You want to make the game's balance dependent on what some people think right away? When someone posts their thoughts on the Forums, we can agree with them or disagree and help them understand. When they're in-game, they can't get told why people disagree.


Here's an example:
Which Class is the strongest?
Will people go for the Class which has the most Over-Used build (Strength Blood Mage) or the Class they lost against to?



Ranloth -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:24:46)

Our feedback isn't always used either, whether it's biased or not. In-game polls provide information from much higher amount of people than on Forum, but there's a danger of people just messing around with the poll (not caring) or just being biased. Forum is the place where you can explain it in detail and why you believe so, and it can still be biased.

Both are valid forms of gathering data, and both should be used in conjunction with each other.



lionblades -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:27:04)

@Scyze:
There was a Rabble-poll in past I cant remember the date but it was in Delta (I'm sure someone can remember)

Also, I said in my first post I do agree there should be more forumers, but at the same time Rabble-polls should be used as well. Maybe both should be used, and imo the results would not be very different; for example a post on the strongest core-- in the forums, someone might have said the azrael cores, in a poll the majority will say the same (viewed as a percentage).

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I do think Rabble-polls should be used as well in conjunction with this suggestion.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Trans. :P




toopygoo -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 19:59:17)

to be fair about balancing (and if you have the varium) try it yourself, before hating on it:

i had a time i really loathing BM, and i switched to it. I really regretted it and reverted back. the class did not suit my taste to tactics or decisions, thus regardless of how much i wanted to beat them, i couldnt put up with being them. ergo, i hated them because they certain advantages over me, but nonetheless, they were about equal in other battles, or against other builds. I really have a hard time against support-strength mages, as a tech merc becasue they drain my greatest defense stat, pump out huge damage, regain more energy than i can drain, and beat me 9/10 times. however, i bet they are frequently unsuccessful against BM do to bloodlust and smoke.

Now after reading that, you konw how i feel dislike towards certain builds/classes and my reasoning. You my see which side i might vote on or against. you see logic, and reasoning behind my response to a question such as "which class do you think is the best?" i would say merc because i really enjoy a tank-like build.
in an in-game poll, even if the "correct" data is given, (which im not denying it can be wrong) you might have the wrong reasoning, even with the right numbers. And i feel, if forum activity were to increase significantly then it would reach a state where it would match polls:

a lot of people come to forum to share their minds and have really little to no way of expressing knowledge or facts except emotions. There is a course, which one can take on this (ToK= theory of knowledge, i suggest googling it for more info) which would elaborate on using scientific methods AND a mixture of emotion for proper sharing of information. One needs a balance of intuition, research, facts, and belief to achieve knowledgable breakthroughs. Without this, the data can easily be proven unreliable.

TL;DR Polls are not a quick fix answer for this. inviting people to the forum souds better BUT there would have to be a filter to weed out those who cannot share information, only emotion.



danirasab -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 20:41:51)

quote:

Well then... You want to make the game's balance dependent on what some people think right away? When someone posts their thoughts on the Forums, we can agree with them or disagree and help them understand. When they're in-game, they can't get told why people disagree.


Here's an example:
Which Class is the strongest?
Will people go for the Class which has the most Over-Used build (Strength Blood Mage) or the Class they lost against to?


Ever heard of open and closed question? You've got to respect the fact that closed question (E.g. Have you played snooker? yes/no) are much easier to get information quickly and is easy to put it in a quantitative data such as excel in graphs and pie charts and show figures while a closed question (e.g. Why do you like this game?why? I like it because it is fun) is used as a qualitative data which can be hard to put it in things like pie charts and it it will be harder to analyze when looking at reading them at them one by one boring your self to death.

Maybe ED can do polls (forgot the word) like e.g. In a scale of 1-10 do you like this game? 1 = lowest 10= highest.
That's another good way to balance the two out.



toopygoo -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 20:47:38)

@ danirasab

My problem is that the data gained has no need to be backed up, and thus gives no reasoning for why it shows what it does.



lionblades -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 20:58:31)

@Toopygoo
That is why there should be a combination of the 2. If this suggestion is only pushing for more forumers I find that many will not see the incentive after making a new account, verifying it etc. and then post in the forums. On the other hand, if a poll is implemented there will be less extremes considering that a poll allows lower levels AND higher levels to participate. By utilizing the polls (similar to the ones used before) in game, and comparing to the posts in the forums, the devs can have a more accurate view on balance.



toopygoo -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/2/2013 21:12:48)

@ lionblades

I agree, how could you promote this idea? i mean, how can you ensure you get honest/thinking players on the forum, and keep singe-angle minds to polls in-game?



danirasab -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/3/2013 4:47:52)

@Toopygoo
I do not understand what you are trying to say.

@lionblades

quote:

more accurate view on balance.

All games I suppose are unbalanced. Even the best games you play like LOL, BO2, AC4, BF3, T4M, GOW3.
Polls do not always give you a reliable answer though. Say if you're giving questionnaire out to people on the streets. Would they wait for like 20 minutes just to do the questionnaire? No they wouldn't. They will quickly rush it and then go to work etc. The best ways is giving open question but like I said it s harder to analyze or even give interviews to the interviewee which is another good source of information. Though the questions also need to be a reliable question such as "Which cores do you like? Why?" which shows that any person can vote for any core in the game and should not be un-reliable such as "Do you like Azrael will? Why?" as it only favors one core but not the rest



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: We need to get more players involved in the forums. (11/3/2013 12:17:05)

quote:

to be fair about balancing (and if you have the varium) try it yourself, before hating on it:

i had a time i really loathing BM, and i switched to it. I really regretted it and reverted back. the class did not suit my taste to tactics or decisions, thus regardless of how much i wanted to beat them, i couldnt put up with being them. ergo, i hated them because they certain advantages over me, but nonetheless, they were about equal in other battles, or against other builds. I really have a hard time against support-strength mages, as a tech merc becasue they drain my greatest defense stat, pump out huge damage, regain more energy than i can drain, and beat me 9/10 times. however, i bet they are frequently unsuccessful against BM do to bloodlust and smoke.

Now after reading that, you konw how i feel dislike towards certain builds/classes and my reasoning. You my see which side i might vote on or against. you see logic, and reasoning behind my response to a question such as "which class do you think is the best?" i would say merc because i really enjoy a tank-like build.
in an in-game poll, even if the "correct" data is given, (which im not denying it can be wrong) you might have the wrong reasoning, even with the right numbers. And i feel, if forum activity were to increase significantly then it would reach a state where it would match polls:

a lot of people come to forum to share their minds and have really little to no way of expressing knowledge or facts except emotions. There is a course, which one can take on this (ToK= theory of knowledge, i suggest googling it for more info) which would elaborate on using scientific methods AND a mixture of emotion for proper sharing of information. One needs a balance of intuition, research, facts, and belief to achieve knowledgable breakthroughs. Without this, the data can easily be proven unreliable.



well, my time as a bm was amazing. owned 1v1 because BM is the best 1v1 class ( BH once was). this doesnt mean its OP. by best , i mean it is the easiest to use, funnest, simplest, and only people who actually think and have smart builds can beat you. but, BH is best jugg because of utility, and merc is best 2v2 because of damage, tanking and utility.



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