RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (Full Version)

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Leprechaun -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 7:43:56)

Lol I come back after a while and don't know how to play anymore xD



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 7:47:57)

i used to be a tank cyber hunter and now i switched to a more offensive type of ch. Yes this move is something new but i know i will get used to it pretty soon. although i agree that some class especially Tm can gain a lot of energy, i mean almost unlimited due to the new skill that replaces reroute, plus assimilation. seriously, are the dev's giving Techmages unlimited access to energy??

One thing im certain about this new update, defensive skills are completely broken. No passive armor, no passive hp regain, no passive block chance, i can only think of one thing. EVERYBODY GO FOR OFFENSIVE SKILLS.



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 7:59:56)

I repeat myself, the update is not optimal yet. The change for now unbalanced the game yes. But the staff is working on balancing it out. Battery will mostly likely get a nerf to make sure TM has no unlimited energy source. And defensive skills will most likely get a buff so that the turn and energy cost is worth using it. These are only examples of what might happen. Other skills are affected by this update, so it is possible they will change too.

Remember, Balance does not mean that you are winning most of the time. Real balance in PvP means no matter the odds, you have 50% chance to win at average. ED staff is working on that but they can only do that one step at a time.
So to people feeling the game is now horrible, tell us in a Friendly, Helpful and Constructive manner what is wrong now.

Saying "Turn the actives back to passives" obviously will not happen. But you can say that TM has too much of an advantage with the Battery. Or say that more defensive strong classes are at a disadvantage without their passive armour.
But you have to say it and explain why it is good or bad. Just saying it is bad, saying the game sucks or saying you no longer have your 75% win chance is in no way helpful feedback to the staff.



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:09:36)

@therril, i'll try to be constructive as i can coz i dont want to be accused of flaming or trolling. I only have one question; im sure the devs definitely anticipated this kind of energy abused from the TMs becasue first and foremost, the assimilation and reroute combination for TMs are already overpowered for casters prior to this update. Then they replace reroute with this battery which in my opinion and very much obvious overpowered compare to reroute (imagine having full energy back without sacrificing your hp). Why they still pursue this kind of update??



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:16:33)

The first thing the staff wanted to do was turning the passives into an active that works very similar. This was the easiest and msot simple change to do so people could adjust more easily.
Next step would be to look at every class again on their own and see how they hold up against any other class.

You, the players, are the most important testers for it really. The weekly release schedule makes you the main testers.
And the forums are one of the media that will give a way to tell the staff what is wrong and right.

Now, 2 things are made clear:
1) Techomage is too strong. Their infinite energy supply allows them to deal constant damage without every having to resort to weaker abilities.
2) Defensive classes like the mercs are too weak now because they have to pay energy to have their defenses up which costs them not only energy but also a valuable turn.

So I gather this will be the priority to be looked upon for changes in the future updates. Balancing things out is difficult because players are very very resourceful and creative.
Hence why it is done one step at a time, sometimes it is a big step, sometimes a small step. The passive to active update was a very big one, so now the staff has to make a lot of small steps to get a strong foothold again in order to move forward.

We need you guys for that, so that is why we need your opinion to work it all out.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:18:55)

How about turning the notch on Static smash down by a lot... I barely regain energy with this new Bloodmage regainer
just to get it all removed by 1 static smash that takes double the energy I regain over the 3 turns..

also, Merc to weak?
You should see the comeback of strenght mercs
or the High defense/tech Bunker Static abuser ;).



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:21:26)

quote:

Real balance in PvP means no matter the odds, you have 50% chance to win at average


Yes, balance means that at the start of the battle, barring all other factors, both players have an equal shot at winning. But upon factoring in player skill and strategy, I believe the experienced veterans will have a higher chance of winning by playing tactically.

Look at the BMs which have essentially ruled most of Omega. Some have a win rate of over 80% - partly because BM was OP, partly because some players have strategy and tactical awareness. Some, though, have a win rate of around 30%. Does that mean BM is unbalanced and underpowered? No. They just don't have the ability to plan ahead, or their tactics aren't as refined.

In mathematical terms, perfect balance is achieved at 50-50. But a good, experienced player can increase it up to 70-30 or even more. I'm not asking to have TM win chance to be lowered to 20%. All we want is a 50-50 chance at winning. With that 50-50 chance, I know that I can turn it into 70-30. Arrogant as this might sound, a good strategist will be able to turn the odds into his favour. Right now, the state of EpicDuel does not give me, or any other non-TM for that matter, an equal footing at the start of the battle. That, my friend, is unbalanced.



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:23:05)

@therril, i got you there. But the thought of fixing this up for another full week makes players annoy because it can only result to 2 things.

1. most if not all non-TM players will stop playing for a whole week and worst case scenario, some of them may not come back anymore;
or 2. Players will just continue to find ways to counter TMs then just end up lossing, sacrificing their win/loss record, get rage and eventually quit.

I know it will be too much to ask, but i guess the fix must come as early as possible because no offense, the update is definitely one sided as of now.

thank you.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:26:10)

Classes that can remove and regain energy using 1 skill alone: Tech Mage, Blood Mage, Merc
Classes that need to spend their own energy to remove energy: TLM, CH, BH

Of the second category, TLM and CH have lost their passive armour and best skill (Mineral & Plasma Armour).

This is why I say TLM and CH are right at the bottom now. Within these two, TLM is dead last, because it does not have a single debuff at all. In fact, it is the only class without a debuff (intimidate is counted as one).



@kaiser

I completely agree with the two points you raised. Right now for some classes (CH, TLM), it is die, or die trying. There is no escape route, and yes, there will be people leaving for sure. The only way to prevent this is to stop the bleed immediately. We cannot afford to wait until next week's release.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:29:38)

Here is something else the staff needs to take into consideration. When you took away our passives you forgot to do the same with the NPC. Thanks to this those NPC got a massive buff since they don't need to waste a turn applying them. While I can beat some of the NPC others are just almost impossible even as a Tech mage which is for now the class that is on top. NPC need to be toned down quite a bit especially for those trying to do those missions that involve fighting them.



EpicIsEpic -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:30:48)

@Jekyll
TLM i'd say is strongest or 2nd strongest class IMO.
Why Poison + New battery just kills. With a high enough heal it is fatal. Tac mercs are if anything Op due to 1 skill. The battery core.
But ill agree to you when they nerf it.



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:31:58)

@mother, i completely agree with you. Im using a tank cyber hunter with pretty decent defense and resistance, nightwraight knock me off in 3 turns. completely wicked.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:33:46)

@Mother1
The issue with NPCs was known before the change, and Mecha has said that they will be re-balanced (NPCs) if it's necessary. They couldn't predict how big the power gap will be because it's difficult to test something that big with plenty of builds and limited Testers, hence why we, the players, can do it better.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 8:36:06)

@Epic

Have you tried TLM? I, for one, can tell you that TLM is the absolute weakest right now. Poison needs 33 EP to reduce the opponents HP by 5-13-13-13 (44). This is around 85% of the average heal used by high level players. Adding in how the TLM himself will need to heal too, there is only enough energy in the battle to use poison effectively two times at best.

It's not just me saying TLMs are the weakest. Veteran players like me who I have spoken to in-game concur as well. If TLMs are not last, they are second to last. In fact, TLMs and CH can just share the last spot. Dead. Last.

The build you talk about was decent, but not the best. And that was 24 hours ago before the update. Right now, it is obsolete.

1) A High HP poison build comes with low defenses, which will be wiped out in a few turns by any class. You have to waste 1 turn to heal, 1 turn for battery, and 1 turn to do 5 damage with a grenade, essentially guaranteeing a loss. Mark of Blood regains the poision damage easily. A simple level 6 heal will also wipe out your poison. A high level EMP can also force you to waste a turn to get back the EP you need.

2)A Tank poison build will only prolong defeat. You cannot outlast the looping TM, and neither can you outlast classes with decent damage output. Without the passive armour, which wastes 1 turn and lots of EP too, a Tank build will not work at all. Actually, tank builds no longer work effectively simply because you must keep refreshing the passive armour every 4 turns at a high EP cost. By the time you've set up your defenses, you are left with almost no HP.

As I see from your post in another thread, you are one of those TMs using the OP looping build. That's precisely why you don't find anything wrong with balance. You are using the most OP class right now, and not one of the stragglers near the bottom. You have to change class to TLM and experience it first-hand if you really want to claim that TLM is the strongest right now.



Pemberton -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:01:56)

I find it funny that some people already have conclusions about balance after one day of playing with new balance updates...and they come here in the forums...





axell5 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:10:37)

im not sure in real life, but on paper, a poison bot mixed with high dex and higher tech with max surgical strike, would that be a good combo? like, i mean max battery, max surgical, and a high level heal with really high def and res?



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:17:48)

@Axell

You would stand a higher chance against non-TMs. But the constant free energy draining of BMs will force you to choose between a good Field Medic and a good Surgical Strike. As you mentioned, a high level Heal will cost around 29+ energy, while a strong Surgical will cost at least 50 energy. BMs' skill is stronger if you have more energy, so if you have around 55-60 energy, a lot will be drained. CH and BH might have high level EMPs which wipe out 48 energy. TM will bleed you dry slowly. Merc will Static Smash every time you use Battery (your infinite energy is also shared with them.)

For TLMs, using skills which require a lot of EP is not that viable. Good idea theoretically, but with this update, it doesn't stand a very good chance unfortunately.



axell5 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:22:13)

well.... can you try it and prove me wrong? i like when people are with different opinions about someting, one or both of them test it... so could you prove me wrong? or you don't have the poison bot?



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:22:50)

^ Their hard to handle I don't know what people are talking about mages aren't the most powerful.

The tlm surgical build can match them its the battery recharge skill that's the problem it would seem . But if they nerf it they will kill the entire classes as per usual *sigh* *facepalm*,

I do agree that bm,bh,ch,merc are incredibly weak right now.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 9:44:51)

I dont have the bot, but I have tried it with a low level poison to mimic the effect. Although it costs energy around 19 EP, it should be the same considering how Battery increases by so much.

The weakest classes are those who were previoisly dependent on a max Passive Armour. It has already been accepted that mages are horribly OP, no need to argue against that. Just read through all posts since the update.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 10:00:21)

@ Jekyll

it isn't even TM as a whole that is supercharged but rather the caster builds. by them taking away deadly aim and reroute they nerfed non caster mages, and the new active that replaces deadly aim even though it ignores defenses can't sync with Malfuction like an energy sidearm with deadly aim can.

So in reality while Caster TM's got a massive buff from this the other builds the class could use got nerfed.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 10:02:51)

Yes, so most TMs are forced into the Caster Mage. What do you plan to do? Have you tried your previous build? It was quite good before the update...



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 10:08:29)

Had to tweek it a bit, but yes I am using that build. It wasn't completely destroyed by this update, and a few tweeks to it made it useable again.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 10:18:43)

I can still use my Plasma Cannon build which is... surprising. Haven't retrained at all, apart from DA -> Parasite conversion.



Virtual Earthquake -> RE: =ED= November 8th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.38 (11/9/2013 11:39:46)

@Jekyll
I agree with you 200%.
I'm a very strategical player that is currently a TLM and the past 10 1v1 battles I played, I lost 7.
I'm not being arrogant, but I out of 10 battles I usually get 7-8 wins and 2-3 losses, and I loved being a tank.
In taking away the Passives EpicDuel ruined any tank builds, so now pretty much everyone will be flocking to the next OP offensive build.
Maybe being a boring TLM tank for a long time wasn't very "diverse", but it was why I played EpicDuel, I loved it.
Now my build is completely ruined and Under-powered, it takes 30 fricken' energy just to activate my Armor (which also costs me a turn and only stays for 4 turns) and then someone takes away the rest of the energy I have left.
I have Battery Pack and yet it doesnt even work right!!
My main move is Level 7 Surgical Strike and I never get to use that now thanks to every move costing energy so I pretty much have to resort to my Bot and Aux, then sadly my only good offensive move left is Double Strike.
I think this was a step in the wrong direction, and EpicDuel would've been fine without it, it's not like there's more diversity since now the masses are gonna be all Caster Mages.
All in all, I think do to this bad-judgement change, EpicDuel is already slowly dying (I hardly ever seen Epic full anymore, and Exile only has like 10 players on it lately), and I think this change smashed EpicDuel to rock bottom.
I will definitely not be playing this game until something is changed for the betterment of tanks like me that used to love this game.
Bye bye for a while.

-A once loving ED player



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