Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (Full Version)

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Predator9657 -> Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 17:08:13)

A simple way of solving tech/dext abusing TM's would be to give Battery and Assimilation, strength and support requirements.

This would stop TM seeming to be OP since those casters builds wont be able to abuse the stats as they do now - they will have to invest in str/supp - and nerf's wouldn't be needed to balance casters.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 17:19:44)

^ This, I'm already sick of seeing full tech/dex Tech mages, I have 3 ways to energy drain and still can do nothing to stop Super Charge.



Mother1 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 17:23:39)

A support requirement for both would be all that is needed. Since it wouldn't make sense to add a strength requirement to Assimilation since it improves with strength. Plus casters do invest in strength because it works with Assimilation but not support so the support requirement would be the best way to go.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 17:55:29)

Perhaps a dex requirement for assimilation.



Mother1 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 18:32:29)

@ gearzheadz

that would only serve to help dex casters since they use high dex anyways.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 19:41:30)

I would say strength requirement would put a quick end to that abuse, a support requirement would only help stack with malfunction and aux.



Pemberton -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 20:33:15)

I am against any kind of requirement for skills because this limits build diversity



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 20:42:54)

@ Pem

Without some kind of requirement it gives birth to a whole mess of problems concerning stat abuse. If you don't requirements on skills to some extend you get the problems we're battling now. It's a better way of doing things rather than continuing to nerfing skills into the ground.



Stabilis -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/10/2013 20:46:40)

Or, you know, instead of nerfing and buffing skills when you feel like it, you can actually BALANCE them.



Predator9657 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:10:41)

quote:

Since it wouldn't make sense to add a strength requirement to Assimilation since it improves with strength.


Simple; Battery get's strength requirement and Assimilation get's support requirement.

quote:

I am against any kind of requirement for skills because this limits build diversity


Actually, requirements can be used to prevent stat abuse and they are also a good way to balance without having to do a lot of nerfing.

Edit: At below, I missed a word.



ReinVI -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:19:49)

problem with support requirements would be then you have people going to support abuse ( since you know malfunction scales of support ) so yeah... backup does need to be balanced but I'm not 100% on if a stat requirement is what will help



Mother1 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:23:01)

@ Predator9657

you misunderstand once again. It isn't about adding the strength requirement to Assimilation, but adding the requirement period. Remember Assimilation improves with strength regardless so adding a strength requirement to any move will in turn be helping casters who use this move because when they add that strength to their build they are in turn buffing the drain they can get from assimilation. That was why I said just use a support requirement. Since none of the casters moves improves that they use improves with support, and it won't be buffing their strongest moves or the way they get energy.



Predator9657 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:28:44)

quote:

problem with support requirements would be then you have people going to support abuse ( since you know malfunction scales of support )


Considering the low def/res that str/supp builds have, it would be hard for them to take a turn out to spend on Battery; they would have to sacrifice a turn in which they could have dealt substantial damage.

quote:

you misunderstand once again. It isn't about adding the strength requirement to Assimilation, but adding the requirement period. Remember Assimilation improves with strength regardless so adding a strength requirement to any move will in turn be helping casters who use this move because when they add that strength to their build they are in turn buffing the drain they can get from assimilation. That was why I said just use a support requirement. Since none of the casters moves improves that they use improves with support, and it won't be buffing their strongest moves or the way they get energy.


"Once again"? What did I misunderstand the first time?
The reason why str requirements would be effective is extremely simple. If it were more profitable for casters to spend points on str to strengthen assimilation then they would have done so. Therefore making str a requirement will divert stat points which they would have been spamming on tech.
Moreover, 9str/1EP compared to the ~15EP steal would not be a significant problem.



ReinVI -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:35:06)

another reason to not add a support requirement ( in line for support abuse ) are your talking about back-up on techmage but they aren't the only ones with back-up
tactical mercenaries also have battery backup which they can use the support requirement to there advantage. I've seen quite a few 40 dex/tech 100+ or so support builds on tactical mercs
that just sit there artillery strike spamming repeatedly because they have no worries about energy for the most part ( unless your a hunter who can spam emps but not everyone can do that now can they? )



Predator9657 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:40:45)

quote:

tactical mercenaries also have battery backup which they can use the support requirement to there advantage.


What you mean is that they will not be affected (rather than have an advantage since requirements don't go around giving people advantages) by this requirement since they already have support. Correct; the point is not to alter TLM's, but to deal with Caster Mages.

Anyway, I'm proposing a str requirement for battery not supp.



ReinVI -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 12:53:23)

what I meant by using a support requirement to there advantage was the fact they won't be phased by such a change and they can continue using that build while it could cripple casters
strength is still something I'm not so sure about because then they can max out bludgeon and just spam maxed out bludgeons on people instead of a couple spells...

remember techmages have arguably the best strength scaling move in the game



axell5 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 13:06:40)

well what if assim required support and battery required streight?



Virtual Earthquake -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 13:23:36)

Tech mages don't need a nerf.
They're not overpowered.

Half of the classes now are just underpowered.
TLM, CH and BM are now very underpowered thanks to this update.
TLM's and CH's usually revolve around tank builds and thanks to Armors turning into actives, it is now a waste of a turn to use your armor, they only last 4 turns anyway.
I am a Tactical Merc and my build got hurt bad thanks to this update.
I'm currently a 5 Focus Tank with Level 7 Surg. and my build does not work in 1v1 (it's surprisingly good in 2v2)
I am proposing a buff to the classes that were indirectly nerfed during this time.
Now, thanks to this update, TLM's only builds that will work a bit would be the Infamous Sup build and maybe a Str abusing build.
CH's only ave 1 build they can use now pretty much, which is the Str/Sup Malf build, and thanks to BM's Deadly Aim being replaced with an energy drainer that sucks (it was pretty much an indirect nerf to all BM str builds) BM's pretty much can only be mediocre tanks, so I think instead of just Mages being nerfed, maybe TLM's and CH's should get an Armor buff and BM's should get a buff to the energy drainer, because it only gives back like 7-9 energy when someone has full energy of 60+ and then if the person is smart they will deplete their energy quick, so yeah...
If classes keep getting nerfed it will just cause more unsettled/annoyed players and some will probably leave because of how fed up they are, so if there were more buffs it would create balance and people would be happy with it, not like "lets nerf this, this and this!"



ReinVI -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 13:49:12)

mediocre tanks? you sir are overestimating the ability of blood mages...with no defensive debuff to boost weapon damage blood mages damage output is just horrid so they barely regain any health of that shoddy replacement mark of blood. and while I like the parasite skill I think it should drain 10% of the opponents life/ energy instead of just energy... that would help fight against the few tank builds that are around a long with heal loopers because it would help keep the bm in the fight long enough to hopefully win.

but right now battery back up is the overpowered thing here earthquake not techmages the skill is the problem in this situation which makes it harder to balance because it shares the skill with
tactical mercenaries.



Virtual Earthquake -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 15:16:12)

@ReinVI

Yes, I say mediocre tanks because they are still better tanks then TLM's currently, they have a way to gain back health and energy, unlike TLM's which just get a massive amount of enrgy immediately.
Blood Mages out of Cyber Hunters and T. Mercs are the least under-powered because of the variety they have to choose from now, but I do understand that they are still UP. If you think they are "horrible" now and you're currently a Blood Mage, you might wanna try a new build.

Yes, Battery Back up is over-powered, but Mages aren't, it's that certain skill that over powers Caster's, and if it were to be nerfed it would just hurt any other mage builds (besides Casters') and it would put TLM's down even more then they already are.

I was pretty much saying exactly what you said in the last part, you just misinterpreted it, sorry if you had any confusion, but I had already pretty much agreed with you on the last part. I never said Tech mages were over-powered.



ReinVI -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/11/2013 17:34:26)

you do know tact mercs have frenzy right? that's health regain right there plus tactical mercs have things that can hit through peoples defenses better ( artillery/ rage , surgical, etc etc ) and a couple of very good skills. The lack of a decent passive armor does make there tankiness a little shakier but I still believe they have the upperhand over bm's purely cause they can finish a game faster damage wise. BM's have lost a lot of there burst damage potential since deadly aim is gone and that's what made the passive lifegain on them liveable but without a decent lifegain passive as well as a lack of increased damage potential to fuel the shoddy blood lust replacement blood mages are falling short in almost every category minus energy which they did get a slight nerf with parasite.



GirlDevil -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/12/2013 6:49:32)

And two way to drain energy @ NO Costs



Mother1 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/12/2013 9:04:56)

@ girldevil

Battery backup doesn't drain energy it makes energy out of nothing.

Also if you look at the other classes that have energy drains to gain them there's don't cost no energy either to use.



GirlDevil -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/12/2013 9:15:58)

@ Mother1

I am BH and ALL my skills cost energy now!
They have at least two (for gaining some kind of energy) without any costs!

Even the Atom Smasher from Merc cost eng...

So I really dont understand why they have those skills at no cost at all!!!!



Mother1 -> RE: Str/Supp Requirements for Battery and Assimilation (11/12/2013 9:26:52)

@ girldevil

Merc's static smash which drains energy and gives it to them doesn't cost a point of energy.
Blood mages's parasite energy which drains energy and gives it to them doesn't cost energy either.

I wasn't talking about bounty hunter. I was talking about classes that have ways for draining energy that also involve giving the energy they drain back to them. While Bounty hunter, cyber hunter and Tactical merc does have these kinds of drains

Tech mage
Blood mage
and Mercernary do.

And for each of them they don't have any energy cost.

Also Back up battery doesn't drain energy it creates it like static charge would only the gain is a lot higher.

That was what I was getting at. Not that all your moves cost energy, but that every single way that involves transfering energy from one to another or getting energy back period doesn't cost anything.



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