RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Roxas45 -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (7/8/2014 0:48:49)

I remember that when this class came out, I was travelling so I missed its release. When I found out that it had finally released, I spent a few days frantically training it.


I was using the class before I got a DA and it was pretty decent then, but with the DA its become amazing :)

Only problem was the high mana consumptions. :/
Even with a high wisdom stat it still annoyed me.

An amazing class though :)



WHITE DRAGON MAGE -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (7/8/2014 5:19:46)

I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask this but when is the master soul weaver going to be available in the armour closet to save as your class?



The Odor -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (7/8/2014 6:19:15)

Probably not until the end of the second Ravenloss saga.



WHITE DRAGON MAGE -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (7/8/2014 7:09:13)

The Odor: Well we are still waiting for the new aegis soul ally to go with it so it makes sense.



Melissa4Bella -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 19:47:42)

Bumping this. You can discuss the testing Master SoulWeaver armor here!



Ash -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 19:58:32)

Remember! This is a PREVIEW. This could change and there might be other alterations made after I talk with Tomix again. Don't take this as the end all "this is how the class will look" until the class is moved to a live version.

There were also a few fixes made to normal SW to bring it into line as it was kinda broken damage wise on a couple attacks compared to other classes. (425% damage every 5 turns and 500% damage every 4 turns OR 99 turns of +35% damage...yeah)

quote:

Attack - 130% damage over 2 hits of 65% damage.

"Soul Aegis"
+200 Block/Parry/Dodge for 2 turns


"Soul Pierce"
150% damage with +250 BtH.
Unlocks Valor Impact.


"Valor Impact"
240% damage over 3 hits of 80% each. 50% Crit chance.


"Meditation"
Heals 10% total mana.


"Soul Lock"
135% damage
3 turn stun


"Soul Seal"
180% damage
-40 enemy boost for 5 turns
-25 enemy BtH for 5 turns


"Reckoning"
252% damage. 14 hits at 18% weapons damage each.


"Repentance"
165% damage over 11 hits of 15% damage each.
50% DoT over 4 turns. 200% weapons damage total.


"Purge"
Removes all status effects


"Soul Banish"
200% damage, 2 hits of 100% damage.
If enemy health is < 15% will insta kill.
If enemy health is > 15% will apply -100 to enemy Bonus for 2 turns.


"Soul Burst"
1 hit. 140-180% damage. (Random can be anywhere in between)
Applies 8%, 4 turn Mana DoT to opponent.
-20 All debuff for 4 turns


"Soul Vacuum"
180% damage, 2 hits of 90% damage each.
Chance to stun for 2 turns
-30 enemy boost for 4 turns


"Remorse"
155% damage to each foe in battle.

"SoulSynch"
First use -> +35 boost for two turns 2 turn cooldown
After 2 turns, applies +35 boost for 99 turns and allows for second use.
Second use -> 465% damage over 3 hits of 155% damage. (Removes +35 Boost effect)


Read the first part of this post. :|



afb728 -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:03:53)

Drat. So Banishment on SW Classic is not as powerful anymore?



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:04:21)

Stealing my quote from the 01/08/14 DNs...

quote:

Also, the new MSW, if that hasn't been noticed yet, has a few cool changes.

Notably the movement of Retribution, and the removal of the +10 crit skill (replaced by mana recharge).

Remorse seems very weak, though...



Mana Regen seems very weak. It was something close to an 8% regen with no other effects. That's okay I guess, but that's just replacing the +10% crit skill with an equally unused skill.

The 5 hit multi is a lot weaker now, something close to 250% damage instead of 450%. There appeared to have been no other change, which is a little upsetting because it now means that all 5 have to hit one enemy to be actually significant. Splitting it between 3 enemies results in an average of ~80% damage to all (which is very weak for multi), or more realistically, 2 100%s and a 50%. It's obvious that the original Banishment skill was completely ridiculous against 1 enemy (approx 5x damage is insane no matter how you put it), but the way it is now is almost too much of a nerf.

Soul Vacuum and Soul Crush are also still pretty weak, especially for what their narrative effects are.
If suggestions are allowed, perhaps absorbing enemy soul strength rejuvenates your own?



Ash -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:19:01)

One thing you aren't getting is HP regen. It's a glass cannon so that means you get a focus on damage instead of defense. If you try and suggest that you're getting a flat out no. :P

I can adjust the MP regen up a tad but it's by no means "equally unused." On a mana burning class ANY regen to mana is important. If you have a high Wis amount like you would if you're maining SW 8% is substantial. It's also not a defensive class so you won't get the 25% like DL has. Offensive classes are meant to be offensive and just bullrush.

The multi is something I'm still debating. I already changed Pally's to be "one hit per enemy" because random multi's aren't all that great. (Spoilers) I can go ahead and do that here as well for both SW and MSW so they deal 130% / 150% to all enemies respectively. I was trying not to change it too much, but I couldn't leave that insane damage there for one mob fights.

Are you referring to normal SW on Soul Crush? On MSW Vacuum is insane since it's sitting at a 60% chance for a 2 turn stun PLUS the other effects. I can move the All debuff over to Burst if that will help. Normal SW is a different story and I don't want to mess with it too much.



Chazero -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:23:03)

So if I find a bug regarding MSW, do I report it in the Bug Tracker or just say it in this thread?

Toss it here. Just edit your post with it. ~Ash

If you say so. What I found is that when the game is in full screen and when using MSW, there is a small area behind my character's head that seems to remove special effects. For example, in that small area behind my character's head while in Pellow Village on full screen, the area in that small circle doesn't have the purple tint like the surrounding area. It also seems to remove those little yellow lights in Pellow Village as well when I am standing in front of it.

Ah. That sounds like where the player weapon is "hidden" so that might be causing the issues. I can go ahead and see about moving it or doing something with it during the skill tweaks on Monday. ~Ash



Deviance -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:25:14)

Should there be a combo in this class? Like, Vaccum -> Banish, cuz you stole the soul, and banishing it could finish it off. Maybe a dmg reduction to the enemy, or something like the soulless monsters from the soulless quest?



ShimmerSoul -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 20:59:47)

Dang, the official skills breakdown beat me to it. T_T Ah well, it's more reliable anyway.
quote:

"Remorse"
5 hits of 40% damage each to a random foe in battle.

That...seems awfully weak for a tier 3. assuming even distribution of hits (not even factoring in hits absorbed by dead enemies), that would be 40% damage to one and 80% damage to two enemies in a group of 4, or 120% to one and 80% to the other in a group of two. That's one of the worst multis of any 9.0 class. Granted, it's 200% damage when used on a single foe, but that's just okay, not worth all that mana when Reckoning and Repentance can crush almost any lone enemy. I'm aware that Banishment was insanely strong for a tier 2, but as Remorse is now, it's better to just kill enemies one at a time, even if they're in a group of 3.



Ash -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:07:23)

Which is why I'm considering changing it to one hit per enemy and bringing everything else into line. I already nerfed the SW Banishment down as I stated since it was doing RIDICULOUS damage on single enemies and was only like that because it had to deal multiple hits. I don't like the random selection multi's mainly for that reason, they make trying to balance it a completely horrible time.

Same issue with Synch. There's no other class that can do that much damage with a 4 turn turnaround while ALSO giving you +35 Boost for either those 4 turns of the rest of the battle if you choose. It's tedious as it is now but it still needs a fix (The 'Pedia entry for SW has the updated numbers for it.) It was the forefront class for 9.0 but those two skills make them iffy.

I've been talking with Tomix about an idea I had to lose the damage part of Synch but change it to where you "Synch" with Aegis and it alters the effects of several other skills for X number of turns. Basically you'd still have a nuke skill but it would be tied into your other skills instead of unloading every 4 turns. You'd get like 4-5 turns of crazy attacks buffs.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:27:14)

How good is Soul Aegis? It seems to work around 50% of the time- how accurate is this? That figure is from only 20 attacks which connected 10 times, and D/P/B worked the remainder.

The other things I noticed:

Remorse is much weaker than Banishment, to the point of being practically useless for the purpose of a multi. The 'random foe' idea means it is likely to do 80% damage to 2 enemies and 40% to the other, which is way below par with even the base class multis. The class doesn't actually have a multi other than this, so I would much prefer if it was replaced by a simple skill that does ~130% damage to each enemy to prevent it from being slaughtered by multi mobs. Its status as a glass cannon and it being a very weak cannon against multiple enemies makes it very hard to survive.

It seems like Meditation is a touch weak, as others have commented. A MSW doesn't particularly need the sort of build I use (200 DEX, 195 WIS) because it isn't THAT mana-intensive. I wouldn't really put more than 90 into WIS if MSW was my main class, and that would mean that at 80, it would give 77 MP; hardly worth the waste of a turn, really.

Vacuum is now one of the best nerf skills in the game. It may even be a touch OP, just because it's likely to stun your opponent and then leave them unable to do much damage, gives you 20 Boost equivalent, and does 180% damage to boot. Maybe a small nerf, but I think it's OK.

That aside, good work, Ash!



Ash -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:35:45)

Taking all that's been said into consideration.

Remorse is now 150% damage to each enemy. (Will be updating this on SW here in a sec. SW will deal 130% to each enemy.)

Meditation is now 10% MP regen.

Vacuum has lost the -20 All part and it's now on Soul Burst.

Will be updating the breakdown above. Lemme know how that works now. Will need a refresh and most likely a cache clear to pick it up.



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:39:47)

quote:

One thing you aren't getting is HP regen. It's a glass cannon so that means you get a focus on damage instead of defense. If you try and suggest that you're getting a flat out no. :P


The issue is that it's not enough of a glass cannon. 425% + (375%) damage loops off of Soulsynch is great, but if we were to compare that with say, Frost Moglin and Necromancer v2, they can do the same. It's a little underwhelming considering it's the current latest class in addition to requiring what amounts to 2 storylines + DA for any of the skills.

quote:

I can adjust the MP regen up a tad but it's by no means "equally unused." On a mana burning class ANY regen to mana is important. If you have a high Wis amount like you would if you're maining SW 8% is substantial. It's also not a defensive class so you won't get the 25% like DL has. Offensive classes are meant to be offensive and just bullrush.


I think what put me off about the regen skill is that it says something like "regenerate mp and focus energy". I was a little miffed when I found out that it was solely an 8% mp regen. While that could be said that it's an issue regarding MP going into the 2000s while mp costs very rarely go over 50, I think something that would make the skill more useful would be say, a damage / bth buff in addition to charging mp. You're focusing yourself, after all.

quote:

The multi is something I'm still debating. I already changed Pally's to be "one hit per enemy" because random multi's aren't all that great. (Spoilers) I can go ahead and do that here as well for both SW and MSW so they deal 130% / 150% to all enemies respectively. I was trying not to change it too much, but I couldn't leave that insane damage there for one mob fights.


In agreement that random multis are heavily imbalanced. They're either way too strong on singles or way too unreliable on multiple enemies, especially when you kill one of them halfway and the skill starts missing.

quote:


Are you referring to normal SW on Soul Crush? On MSW Vacuum is insane since it's sitting at a 60% chance for a 2 turn stun PLUS the other effects. I can move the All debuff over to Burst if that will help. Normal SW is a different story and I don't want to mess with it too much.


Soul Crush I meant Soul Burst. not only does Vacuum completely outrank it, but a lot of the Vacuum abilities outstrip those of Burst by themselves. The MP DOT currently isn't very useful, and even against enemies that do use mp, 4 turns of 8% still leaves a lot of MP for the enemy to use. It just doesn't fit that well with the "burst soul" thing, really.

quote:

I've been talking with Tomix about an idea I had to lose the damage part of Synch but change it to where you "Synch" with Aegis and it alters the effects of several other skills for X number of turns. Basically you'd still have a nuke skill but it would be tied into your other skills instead of unloading every 4 turns. You'd get like 4-5 turns of crazy attacks buffs.


So something like AQW Chaos Slayer's Pandemonium, which gives additional effects based on the current applied effects?

Skills that inflict a status...
Soul Lock
Soul Seal Slash (boost / bth debuffs)
Repentance (DOT)
HP Banish (instakill or automiss next attack)
Burst (mana burn + crit debuff)
Vacuum

Now, Lock and Vacuum are pretty strong, and HP Banish is powerful on its own, so that leaves 3 skills.

Stronger versions of the same debuffs is kind of repetitive, so how about this...
Seal -> Soul Cage (reduction in MPM)
Repentance -> Soul Punctures (total BPD negation)
Burst -> Soul Shattering (something)


I thought that something really annoying regarding HP Banish is that by the time an enemy got to 15%, they'd get killed by any other skill anyways.
Would it be too strong if it was at 30% or even 40%?



Ash -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:49:51)

I may have tweaked Necro a little high but I can adjust SW's a tad now that the monster damage skills are gone. It's mainly an issue of how high I can push it without making it beyond what it should be. I'll tinker a bit with the numbers.

It probably shouldn't have the MP regen at all as a offense based class but the +10 crit was pretty much useless.

Random multi's are both gone. I just replaced them with a static multi like the other classes.

I also just moved the -20 all to burst. The main issue with burst is it's meant to be a random damage boost skills. (110%-180 and anywhere in between). It's main draw is meant to be the random damage not really the effect. I can probably min max it out to 140%-200% if I drop the -crit off of it and fiddle with the MP/CD

-MPM/BPD does odd things with the engine on occasion at negative amounts so I don't want to mess with those types of nerfs.

Yes it would be too strong. You have an auto kill attack. Any higher than 15% puts its mana costs through the roof along with a carry across on CD. The more you go past 15 the higher the MP/CD gets, and it goes up really really fast.



Vestrova -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:49:57)

i second the erosion seeker as well, i feel power wise it isnt much more damage than necro, and necro is a super defensive class.

no disrespect meant of course, its still a very cool class, and i do like debuffs it gives.



Paladin Warrior -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 22:31:16)

Liking the changes so far, I'll miss the power of Banishment but I see why you'd want to cut it. Overall damage output still seems quite high to me, it's not the nuke it was, but it's more fun now relying on other skills. Feels more appropriate for a Soulweaver too, 'weaving' the perfect array of buffs and debuffs. Lasar-nuke weaver just doesn't fit as well.



ShimmerSoul -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 22:35:26)

I actually like the multis much better this way. MSW doesn't really need a massive banishment nuke anyway since it has Reckoning. Losing half of my damage on dead enemies bugged me, and now there's no need to go in and squash that particular bug in the code. :p
The only other complaint I have is very small - Valor Impact's damage is mediocre, and it can't even be used without having used an even weaker attack first. A combo skill on a glass cannon just kind of bugs me in general, I guess. It would be nice if it came with either more damage or some debilitating effect to justify spending an extra turn on it, but it's not such a big deal.
All in all, though, it's pretty sweet. It feels just like an upgraded soulweaver ought to.



flashbang -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 23:37:38)

Hehe, bugged me.



NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/2/2014 1:13:19)

Purge seems rather unnessecary as the only status effect worth fretting over is stun where Purge can't do anything about it.

Most DoT statuses are often so unthreatening, they might as well not matter. And can sometimes be beneficial.



oldmanjenkins -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/2/2014 1:20:02)

Well purge can remove blinds and boost debuffs as well I believe, as well as debuffs that decrease your resistances.



Paladin Warrior -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/2/2014 4:11:13)

Purge is definitely not something you need often. Though often a good goal is to make every skill frequently usable on a class, Purge is good enough in certain situations that it's worth keeping around, especially since (M)SW is great anyway. Most importantly, though, it is unique - not a cookie-cutter skill pasted in to fill a space but something one of a kind. Sure a typical stun or blind or HOT is great but Purge is special and fits well with the theme here.



plue344 -> RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread (8/2/2014 4:46:06)

@Ash: Will you be adding a Passive to MSW like Necro, Pally and DK. I just want to know because you said before that only the classes that are linked to important story lines will have passives (I'm paraphrasing here), so is the Tomix Saga an important enough story line for MSW to get a passive?



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