Why can't there be more support based attacks? (Full Version)

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ValkyrieKnight -> Why can't there be more support based attacks? (11/27/2013 11:10:11)

As it stands Auxiliary strike is the only usable skill to use support and even then when you create a build based around it it is generally weak if and or very easy to counter via high health. Why can't there be more support based attacks? Support IS a attacking stat, sure, but you can use your auxiliary so infrequently that there is really no abusing it since you have to sacrifice both phy and res to abuse it. With the recent emphasis on reserving energy I don't see any potential OMG support hax cries coming anytime within the near future.

I still think personally having skills that work with dex and tech is backwards, I don't and probably never will understand the reasoning behind, high defense = high offense. It's one or the other like str and sup very often have lack-luster defense and is countered by high defense players by way of blocking 70% of the time.



Stabilis -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (11/27/2013 11:21:32)

Probably because Support-based skills will have no way of being blocked or deflected on top of being proficient in critical strikes. But... say these skills had warmups, like Berzerker. Or extended cooldowns, like ultimate skills. Maybe then I could pass some of these supposed skills.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (11/27/2013 11:32:17)

I hear you on the critical hit percentages, of course. But it would work for people who truly want to be strategy via buffs and casting skills, as it stands the developers put too low of priority of buffing yourself or others due to insufficient amount of energy. A player really cannot make the call when or if they want to use buffs because it gives opponents a great window to drain their energy, ruining their strategy. Therefore support based builds would have the low energy requirement of buffs (While being effective) and still be able to fight.

This will also effect players who attempt to break stats via 75 hp/ 110+33 tech/dex/sup/str(Not so much str cause str abusing builds suck) as a single critical would severely impact the stat abuser causing them to rethink their abusive builds. Again, because support builds are going to be weak in terms of defense its a good counterpart to super tanks who have high casting damage output.



Stabilis -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (11/27/2013 12:17:15)

quote:

Again, because support builds are going to be weak in terms of defense its a good counterpart to super tanks who have high casting damage output.


That is another thing. Dexterity and Technology are meant to be defensive stats, yet they have offensive skills. Support was called a "jack of all trades" by the developers, but that undermines the purpose of stat balance. It has an attack like Artillery, and protection like Energy Shield. Then again, so does Technology, especially when Robots are included. Then you have Strength, and that stat is pure damage. All of its skills are offensive. And lastly we have Dexterity, and for the most part it is defensive, save for some weaker attacks like Multi Shot or Stun Grenade.

1 way to help stat balance, is to organize every skill into an appropriate stat, or have no skills improving with stats at all (they get abused anyways). Any skill that is offensive could go into either Strength or Support, and anything that is defensive could go into Dexterity or Technology.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 16:02:58)

well, a buff to support could be that gun damage scales with support and str, you have to have a good amount of str AND support to get good gun damage. i think this would be a good buff.



Altador987 -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 16:14:33)

actually why are more of the fundamentals based on support: the ability to go first, crits, reduced chance of stun, rage gain, plus the skills honestly i think a good way in balancing the way the system works is to give one of those benefits to strength for example:

Strength: affects percentage to crit, improves primary and sidearm damage
Dex: affects percentage to block, improves defense
Tech: affects percentage to deflect, improves resistance
support: improves chances of first move, reduced chance of stun, improves auxiliary damage, improves rage gain

it still leaves a good chunk to support but it gives more reason to want strength without diminishing want of support as a crit (while a lot due expect it) isn't something that should be expected



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 17:01:51)

Builds that are primarily support are doomed to fail, their "increased luck" advantage is no advantage at all when your opponent is spamming you with blocks it completely defeats the purpose. You have high critical chance, but you also have a good chance of being blocked. Again, support builds are non existent because they're weak. The only time I have ever seen Merc/Tact successfully use their "Support" advantage was when their opponents had 70 - 80 hp. 100 or more and their done for.

Strength is in this same boat as primarily strength based builds are easy to block, easy to counter with a bit of health being 100 - 120. I am not saying strength is weak, far from it. However, support, regardless of its slight bonuses is a weak stat an makes for a terrible build.



Altador987 -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 17:07:27)

but isn't that the point? to not be primarily focused on just one skill, not too mention there is no skill that improves with support that is blockable... malf doesn't count as the damage itself is based on strength and not support most skills based on support are defensive other than the multi and aux which of course can be deflected but at the same time should be able to be deflected, i'm not sure which class you'd be referring to about spamming blocks as shadow arts no longer affects that which literally left dex in the dust as none of the classes are completely reliant on it other than for defense purposes



Teserve -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 19:30:34)

@above
I think she means w/ high dex and class can block lots.

And don't forget Field Commander Improving w/ support!



GearzHeadz -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 19:45:42)

Oh really now? Blocks are very underrated. I sometimes dex abuse as a BH and tell ya what, even at 140+ dex, people are still hitting me and I still only get the occasional blocks.



Altador987 -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 20:14:34)

blocks have improved due to the update but they were only put on par with deflections and crits, i really don't see the solidarity in this argument (field commander is a buff and while is used for offensive is not an offensive move as you're not doing any immediate damage with the skill)



Pemberton -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/2/2013 23:56:06)

Support is both offense and defense so I don't see your point.



DarkDevil -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/3/2013 0:21:45)

support is support , it acts as a support to all builds in small portions in form of shields and requirements , with mercs case of a multi being on it.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/3/2013 1:05:21)

It doesn't matter how much "Support" increases your buffs, no one uses buffs as its so easy to by pass them. This is especially true with the recent watering down of defensive passives; defensive skills; defense melting new bot; poison bot; and of course azreal aux and android. It's clearly evident that you can win with a build that abuses strength (to an extent) easily with primarily tech & dex but you can forget about support. All I've seen people do with support is add enough to make 5 focus which tells me its a pretty lack luster stat, energy is also too weak but the developers remedied this with ridiculous energy regain options that allows players to get away with adding little to mostly no points to energy. Health is also still being ignored so of course back to my very old talking point that there is too much focus on tech/dex. Another contributor to this game being dubbed "Lucky duel" is that 1 block spells disaster to 1 person during a fight as I lost so many fights cause my opponent just happened to block before being struck down.

Show me a successful build which the best's highest stat is support (not even stat abusing) just the highest stat is support and not dex/tech cause I don't think there is one. I await the Merc/Tact screenshots.



Altador987 -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/3/2013 1:53:33)

i must be no one then as my bh uses the reflex boost often, my merc uses his blood commander often, and i tend to need shields for cys, bhs and, tm... as for the build i'd show you what my cyber hunter used to be but seeing as we continue to be nerfed his support and strength are the same with tech a little higher and dex low as crap... um any tact merc you see in 1on1, i still see mages abuse it in one on one with strength... and it sounds more like you're upset with risks than anything else. when you attack with a blockable attack regardless of that person's dex you're taking a risk that risk being that it could be blocked, just like there are risks for deflections as well as crits, i don't even know why you brought blocks up as like i said there is literally no skill affected by support that is blockable. personally being that i have a merc a cy a tm and a bh i tend to sway towards support as 2 of those classes need it for malf as well as a shield, i personally like being able to shield myself as a bounty, and mercs can do fine with support. actually... why would you want to win based primarily on one stat anyway? wouldn't you want it so the other stat aren't winnable that way as that's unbalanced and boring? i'm not interested in showing you anything as classes aren't balanced to begin with so asking for that is silly and a waste of my time.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/3/2013 3:06:32)

^ You are one in a dozen, nobody uses those defensive skills. I personally have 10 reflex 7 energy shield. It is not difficult nore time consuming to screenshot your build. I was not advocating that there should be a way to make a build primarily on support, what I did say was being able to make build that's highest stat is support as its just a means to get 5 focus and nothing more. Also about block, there are few attacking skills that improves with support, very very few and it does have a turn cooldown leaving room for your opponent to drain your and make you waste a turn recovering energy. This and your primarily attack will be a aux attack once every few turns which to have a primary support build you could just have that blocked half the time. Putting a more logical sense to the term "Caster" they typically have high unblockable damage output at the cost of defense and health. In Epic Duel, there is no risk to being a caster since everyone has ridiculous energy draining/recovering skills. Giving support more attacks would allow for more diversity while giving no advantage. High crits? Yeah sure.



Altador987 -> RE: Why can't there be more support based attacks? (12/3/2013 3:12:16)

so instead of fixing the caster problem just make it more unbalanced by giving an already heavily waited stat more weight? and from your shield lvls i'm gonna assume you don't really have a lot of support or you just reeeeeally want to take 3 damage haha. there are a bunch of skills that improve with support i just spent a good 20 minutes reviewing each class, their skillsets, and their synergies... support is doin just fine



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