Content Vs Balance Vs Battle Mechanics. (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Content Vs Balance Vs Battle Mechanics. (11/29/2013 5:09:53)

Which do you prefer, content releases, balance releases or changes to battle mechanics.

Personally I could not care for content at all when you consider balance and battle mechanics being in such a poor shape.



I consider balance and fun battle mechanics to be the foundations, you can't build a house without foundations.


Content releases however allows many people to still enjoy the game in fact I know a lot of people that wouldn't play without the content releases.

If they do content however they sacrifice time for balance/battle mechanics and I understand it must be hard for the developers to chose between.



However hopefully this opinion will help them, perfecting the game mechanics and balance will allow for the game's player base to grow and become loyal, having enjoyable basics will mean players will never be completely bored of the game.


However if they continue to do content releases, sure those players that are bored of the game currently may quit as without content they will have no reason to play but at least they can start to invest in getting a larger and more loyal player base.



My opinion now is that for as long as it takes they should put on hold any content/new gear that has no effect on battle mechanics and completely focus on the battle mechanics which could take up to a year.

The downside is a lot of people will quit during that time and it may seem like the game is deserted but hopefully when they get the battle mechanics right they can set in some decent foundations for the game to grow.




This however is my opinion, what do you guys think?

Do you think they should continue on their path of releasing content and the occasional balance update.

Or do you think like me they should focus alone on battle mechanics until they get a decent game to play needless of special events etc.

A bonus to the second option is if the battle mechanics were good to start with then any content release on top will be a bonus on an already fun game.









Pemberton -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 7:41:37)

I thinks the devs should take into consideration of the amount of credits spent by class changers to bounty hunters before balance updates.
50,000 credits is no joke and many players pay for this advantage. Devs should postpone balance update and think more about good balance update.



martinsen5 -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 8:05:45)

I prefer content to balance any day. Tbh I've never had much of a problem with balance changes, even though that seems to be what's on everyones mind here in the forums. Balance atm is fine IMO, fair enough I lose to BH's with their Static Grenade and Support Mercs/TLMs with Artillery Strike now and then, but that just means their builds counter mine. People hate to lose, hence they complain about "bad balance"

Edit: Btw, I do believe the majority of ED's playerbase (not that it's huge) care more about Friday releases containing more content, rather than balance. Imagine balance fixes every friday for a month, but absolutely no new content whatsoever. Players would get bored, or at least I would.



Pemberton -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 8:20:09)

Martinsen: "I lose to BH's with their Static Grenade"
*Looks at ED char...also a BH...



AQisFuN -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 8:26:35)

I'd prefer balance. Nothing like a well balanced game, before some content!



martinsen5 -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 8:34:38)

@Pemberton, Your point?



Ranloth -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 8:38:34)

Define balance. Is it something you see as balance, something that others see as balance or something that Devs see as balance? I see complaints about poor balance, but these are often emotion-ridden complaints about bad luck, not backed up with any evidence. Full of bias and not taking facts into consideration, but backing your own opinion with another opinion.

No, it shouldn't be balance-only nor content-only. Balance changes take time to code and test. Poor testing means flaming from players and imbalance. Lack of balance means players will end up quitting, and same with lack of new content which means players are binded to play PvP or not at all. Mix of both is the way to go.
People overestimate the available resources that Devs have. Sure, coding may be easy - or so some people think - but testing takes time and there are weekly releases and other projects that are being worked on behind the scenes, that we not know of. You cannot just "change" the schedule as you wish, to fit in more balance or more content. You have to do both, and it's equally time consuming.

Decent balance before content, huh? What's decent balance? What's perfect balance? Something that won't ever exist in a PvP game that has subjective balance and players always think they are right. There's something such as good balance and bad balance, which can be achieved. An example of bad balance was initial Omega release and Str + Support builds being overpowered. An example of good balance could be late Delta and perhaps current ED - but some minor things - where it was playable, with some minor imbalance here and there.

You want bigger changes to game mechanics? It takes some time if you consider content having to be coded and the game mechanics rewritten and balanced. With two coders (Titan and Rabble), they cannot really multitask greatly between both because it's impossible. It takes time.
Hire more coders? Sure, how about money for the software, training the new coder, volunteer or paid, trustworthy or not, and who will train them without affecting the game - so if Titan trains the new person, we're lacking a Staff member. But this goes into financial discussion which is not permitted, but if you have some idea about how Businesses work, you will understand.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 11:30:32)

Perhaps people miss understand my "rants" about poor balance.

Yes poor balance is in the form of an overpowered class etc.However this is not what bothers me as much, What I care is when balance effects the game mechanics.


Please do not interpret my disliking to balance to be a "rant" about bad luck.


What I dislike is the complete game mechanics, I can't stand it anymore.


Their is hardly ANY thinking involved in strategies these days and when their is it has only very small impacts on the outcome of the game.



I lost to luck in beta, and I lose to luck now the difference is I didn't mind losing to luck in beta, why?
Because the game mechanics were fun.


I could make a build and with strategy I could out smart opponents which had a clear impact on me winning.

Like wise I could come across a builds which I had little knowledge about and lose to their superior strategy.


Now you come up with a strategy, sure, however the high amount of anti counters in the game means it is less a game on thinking and more about circumstance alone.

For instance, BH is hard to counter they usually win unless they are directly countered.

This clear system means it is boring for those that enjoyed the thrill of using smarts and strategy to win you the game.


You guys may not have the same opinion but this is how I feel.






If the current game was 100% balanced now in terms of every class having equal powers and weaknesses. Then guess what, I still dislike it.

The inner game has changed , and balance isn't necessarily making the game boring however it would likely to be a influence.




Also this current focus of wanting to make each class equal etc every class have a drain and a regain, is not helping the game become about thinking, it is leading more and more to obvious circumstance strategies were people with a reasonable understanding of the game will automatically know what to do to win, and their is little the opponent can do to stop it apart from getting lucky or own overpowering exclusive gear.



THIS, is why I haven't enjoyed ED since early gamma, and THIS is why I want the game changed.


If the game does not wish to go down that path, that is fine, I'm sure some people like the current system, however I really wish they would let us know on their opinion of this because if they do not wish to return the game mechanics to a similar standard in beta, then I can finally quit with the peace of mind this game will never be for me again.

@ Trans,

What I wish is for enjoyable game mechanics, And I am willing to wait for however long it takes, I am in no rush so please to not accuse me of demanding certain things now.

I am just saying that if you look at the game , at best it has a max of 1000 players on during the day and that's usually during releases.

Is that really what they want?

Perhaps they need to start fresh and I mean considering postponing all releases for up to a year to simply get an enjoyable game.

Sure a lot of player will quit during that time, but if they are successful then it would have been easily a worthwhile investment.



Mother1 -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 11:44:18)

@ remorse

you have to remember that they are also aiming the game at kids more than anyone else. Make the game too complicated then you also lose players. Plus if I remember correctly this game was never balanced to begin with. Even in alpha the game was never balanced and beta was no exception to this.

But onto the original question as much as I like balance I actually like content more. Why because while balance is important, I come and play for the events or the hopes of getting a new item if they make it. If there was consistent balance updates but no content I would in all honestly quit.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 11:51:39)

quote:

you have to remember that they are also aiming the game at kids more than anyone else. Make the game too complicated then you also lose players.


If this is the developers intention then I would appreciate if the SIMPLY let us know so for those that enjoyed the more complex battle mechanics of beta can quit in the knowledge that the game is no longer like that nor have intentions of becoming like that again.
Leaving older players to sitting, wandering and hoping for the game to become as fun as it used to be is just cruel, either tell us they want to make it like it was or let us go and perhaps they will find a more happier response to their weekly content releases.


I never said balance was better back in the old days I merely said the mechanics were actually fun.

Balance and game mechanics I often mix up to be the same thing but sometimes I am referring to the actual structure of the game rather then the figures that effect it.



Ranloth -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 12:05:09)

I don't enjoy hyperboles. No, Beta was not more complex (strategically) than Omega, it was just the same - there were some abuseable builds, there was imbalance but there were less skills back then (lack of 12th skill), as well as lack of special abilities - it was pure damage, stats and enhancements.

People honestly overexaggerate past phases and how "great" they were, since it's not true. Sometimes it's subjective, but whether it was more complex or not, is a fact - and it was not more complex. In fact, it was much simpler back then due to lack of abilities on weapons, some skills missing, some stats having different effects (old Support and deflections), and old Focus (which boosted all skills).

I'd appreciate if you back up your statement, because some of them aren't necessarily true. Mother1 makes a valid point with the target audience, and Devs have to cater for them the most. If older players wish to play, they cannot force Devs to make it more difficult, because it greatly affects the main target audience.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 12:15:00)

^ Just because their is less skills etc, does not mean it was less complex then it is currently.
Plus I am talking about the time preenhancements or at least before enhancements on every piece of gear even pre robots/focus was more enjoyable.

Especially when you consider brain power required alone.

I loved the fact in beta/ early gamma that it could be potentially very complex in brain power.

And simply having more skills doesn't increase this.


You always go on about subjective, yet when someone gives their opinion whilst clearly stating over and over again that these are my Opinions, you are certainly quick to shut them down.

Maybe if my opinion has some truth it might become clear that even with much more skills and cores the game is still simple and boring that their is a problem with the inner game structure (AGAIN my opinion)


How do you want me to back up the opinion of having more fun back in older phases? I already gave examples what more do you want.


Why don't you leave my opinions alone instead of constantly shutting me down.



Just because I want the game to become fun again in my eyes, does not give you the right to discriminate my opinion on the matter.



Mother1 -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 12:32:36)

@ remorse

the only think I can think of that would have made the game more fun for you back then was because of the lack of the content you considered bad ideas since If I remember back in beta whatever they made back then had little to no effect on battles with players such as icy chill or only affected battle mechanics slight such as the celtic weapons which increases the chance of connecting on strikes.

If I remember correctly Gamma was when a lot of the new items that went around these idea started coming in such as the stun guns, the Gamma bot Etc.

But to be honest with you, this game really needs a tutorial a well detailed tutorial that explains everything about the game, from battle mechanics the content that is in the game. This way if someone such as yourself wants a more complicated game that is more rewarding with brain power, they can know what they are getting themselves into from the start rather than complain because the game isn't for them.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 12:38:09)

^ That is more or less correct mother,

A lot of the new ideas released from any point beyond beta, have had effects on counters, strategy and battle mechanics.



As I said before the high amount of anti counters now (eg. azreal shield de buffs, assault bot, energy regains, free costing drains) means the game is basically all circumstance, Oh you versing a build that can't counter you, you win. (Unless luck gets involved)


Where as before their was almost always a combination of moves that you could do that would lead to you winning.

A lack of clarification also effects my enjoyment, how Am I meant to use strategy if I don't know their active cores.


Before I quickly get shut down, this is what I would prefer the game to be like.
Just because you like the lack of known possibilities doesn't mean everyone should.

Build variety and viability has been dramatically reduced since beta too, though I admit far better in omega then compared to delta (by far the worst phase in my eyes.)

All I ask is to know what the game plan is in terms of game mechanics,

Do they want it like how it was originally, if not please tell us so those hanging on hope can finally quit. Thanks.





Ranloth -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 13:15:53)

I think you've misunderstood, Remorse. Shutting down your opinion is a bit too far, perhaps disagreeing is more like it. I've not pointed out you're wrong, nor right, but neither am I. I'm free to counter your opinion with my own opinion, but that doesn't make neither of us, right nor wrong.

When we compare Beta to Omega, game diversity has increased - in form of more skills (variety), cores with different abilities, effects on weapons (passive), and lack of passive skills. If we look at player diversity is more or less the same, in other words, low. Players still abuse and don't go for diverse builds, but we're not the ones to force them to be creative - just like how they aren't going to force us to join them; "If you can't beat them, join them."

That doesn't mean Devs aren't trying to make it more diverse and a bit more strategical - Energy cost on cores, lack of passives which were a must, re-working core mechanics of the game such as soon-to-be Rage, altering blocks a while back, Crits being changed greatly during Omega, and possibly plenty more in due time - Rabble will be looking at the core mechanics from now on, and he's mentioned it just after passives were changed; the mechanics are his next big project, and big projects take time.

In the end, I'm merely disagreeing with you. Where I can, I may shut down your opinion if I have sufficient facts to back it up with (which you may not have), but opinion vs. opinion, neither of us are right nor wrong. That's how discussions work - you should expect people to agree and disagree with you.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/29/2013 21:34:00)

^ Of coarse I expect others to disagree,

But honestly the tone you do it in is a little harsh at times especially when you accuse my opinions of being exaggerations, something you have no right to do.


Anyway arguments aside, I will further continue on this discussion by saying that the amount of skills/cores etc does not necessarily mean their is more variety and creativity.


Especially when you consider the idea of cores/robots having effects that reduce counters and therefore some builds can not counter others and lose viability.


For example when they first introduced the heart-breaker robot, STR builds suddenly become viable against people who directly shield their de buff.


That meant shield builds dramatically lost viability and IMO, is what led to the STR uprising of late gamma/delta.

What bothered me is STR builds didn't need that robot to beat people with shields, The smart STR build users would recognize the strategy of using a shield and postpone using the debuff until they sore an opportunity where the opponent would need to heal in the next turn and therefore could not shield for example. (That is only one of the many creative strategies STR builds/glass cannons used back then)


But suddenly the heat breaker bot comes along and you no longer need to think using a STR build, you simply debuff then reduce the shield if they try to use it, simple.
Not only that but the person using the shield had no idea that they had the ability to reduce the shield except for the small hint of the bot being physical in the opponents stats.

In one release of so called "more variety" they more or less massively reduced the viability of shields and completely ruined effort required in using STR builds.


I fail to see how that is "More" variety/ creativity.


And this is only one example of how anti counters have led to easy effortless game play with battles determined mainly by circumstance and luck.



Now if you do not consider this as possible evidence then maybe you will never truly understand how I feel about the change the game has undergone.




Let me know if you want more examples of how in my opinion the game has got less variety and creativity, despite having more skills.

Because I can easily provide more evidence and examples.



Mother1 -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 0:02:33)

@ remorse

You can't expect people to do everything the same way as they did it years ago. In fact I am willing to bet if all these items were there from the start the way you played and enjoyed the game would have never been since everyone would be using these items from the start.

But I have to ask you since I don't remember why, but what is wrong with a counter that counters a counter? It is still a counter none the less, and at the same time depending on builds if said person didn't have said counter they wouldn't be able to win without extreme luck.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 1:27:20)

^ Counter flexibility used to be much greater.


Counters often came in the form of simply a combination of skill, perhaps the order you play out versing another build.


All classes and builds potentially had options to verse their weakness often it was about mind games, tricking the opponent into an order that was unfavorable for them.




It is hard to explain but what is clear is my preference, to put into proportion, I find the game at least 10 times less enjoyable now.


Counters that counter counters basically mean you are left with a game which seems like it has variety , but strategies are more or less versions of the exact same thing with each class now having a similar style version of everything.

If your build can't be countered and you verse another build that can't be countered what happens? Basically the build that has the slightest advanatge over the other will win and I wouldn't say that build actually counters the other because counter implies that you use a technique or strategy that leads to you winning, what is more or less happening here is similar style too hard to counter strategies verse each other and the one most effective wins with a major impact of luck.


I will try find a old ED video to try and help what I'm failing at trying to explain.



EDIT:


Here is a good video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY0hgzEQoFg

As you can see you can pretty much come up with anything and it can work, its all about the turn strategies and less about the ease of being hard to counter.



JDM -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 5:52:46)

^
Omg Remorse, you just made me realize how much i miss beta. I agree entirely with what you said on this thread... It really is so unfortunate that we've all come so far with this game only to find ourselves with it turning out like this.. Honestly, if we could i'd love to go back to the way each skill, stat originally was.. I just don't see anymore variety at all anymore. Especially with this new balance update, i feel like we're all forced to follow one specific path if you know what i mean.. At least back then, we had so much more freedom..

That video link you posted sure reminds me of how much more intensive and rewarding each fight was. I agree, there are way too many counters abilities now and that the game mechanics are purely all circumstance now.

In my opinion, i could honestly say i enjoy omega because of all these new additions of skill cores and the way stat enhancements are handled now but i agree a lot with you Remorse, the game was way more fun and rewarding back then when the game wasn't so restrictive and all about circumstance. I hope they fix this..



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 6:37:21)

^ Thank you JDM!!

Some times I get the feeling no one understands how I feel.

Though that could be possibly due to the fact that a lot of the people with the same opinion as us have quit.


It's good to know that their are people who think the same as us and yes I totally understand what you mean, even though I am constantly shut down about this, I feel that variety through freedom has been reduced despite all the new skills/classes and cores.


On the forums I'm constantly reminded how beta wasn't that good etc. but then I look at a video and I suddenly have the feeling of what it used to be like and I completely throw the idea of beta being an illusion out the window as it is clearly awesome, at least in our opinions.


I also have a similar feeling about omega too,
I also like how they handled enhancement and the removal of the varium-nonvarium gap was awesome.

However some of the cores/robot specials I think is possibly ruining omegas good thing.



JDM -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 6:50:03)

Yeah. Variety through freedom definitely has been reduced. Sure we've got all these new things but the way they incorporated these things affected the game so much.

Man.. I remember when they started putting in all those restrictions. I had an awesome poison build (Atleast i think. I was such a big noob back then haha) with high str and high hp, but then they put those stat requirements for skills and my build suddenly became a lot different. As you can see, thats probably one of starting points of where we begun to lose our freedom of builds.

quote:

However some of the cores/robot specials I think is possibly ruining omegas good thing.


Yeah, i agree. I feel like the passives aren't really doing much harm but the activation cores/specials are affecting things the most. Well thats just my view on it. I started noticing all those anti counters as soon as they started releasing all those omega promo weapons. Mainly though, upon seeing everything you've said on this thread you really have made me realize how really restrictive this game has become. As i said in my last post, its like we're all following one path. I just hope one day the path shall split into many more like it once was.





Ranloth -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 7:13:29)

I see you're still confusing game variety with player variety, despite the facts being handed out to you on the table, you refuse to believe so. It can be proven that game variety has increased by comparing Beta to Omega - amount of new abilities, passive cores, active version of old passives, etc. Player variety is something you decide to use and that one cannot be controlled by anyone but yourself. So likes of Devs cannot force you to be an abuser or creative with your build.

You point out the flaws here and there, and I see little suggestions coming from you on how they should be fixed. Oh how Str builds are easier to abuse, and how x item destroys balance, but did you actually suggest something to fix it or just posted how bad this and that is? And did others agree as well? Of course amount of people who support your suggestion isn't that relevant, but if you're a lone wolf and no one likes it (say, it's biased), it won't be done for the obvious reason - bias, and balance != bias.

Perhaps it's time to give Devs a bit more time, again? Rabble has already said he will get around to fixing core mechanics of the game, which includes luck factors and effects which run on luck (probability), and perhaps stat progression will also be re-visited at some point so it doesn't restrict you as much but has its limits to prevent abuse.
I honestly don't know what else you expect. Yes, you point out the flaws and Rabble has already mentioned that it's his next big project (I could probably dig the post up, from few weeks ago), so what else are the Devs supposed to do? It's their priority, as high as the weekly releases which also need to be coded.

Devs do listen, just need to post it constructively and suggest on how it should be fixed. Perhaps then, they will see what you mean exactly. What may seem obvious to you, isn't for others - such as the imbalance of Botanical Hazard when there are counters (let's not start balance discussion regarding the Bot here). If you don't see anything done about your issue, perhaps you may be wrong about it and it doesn't need fixing, which doesn't mean that Devs don't care but they don't agree with you for whatever the reason is.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 7:25:30)

@ JDM
yeh agreed, Another factor was believe it or not focus,

When it was first made it suddenly become so powerful that anything close to a focus build had to become it and a lot of creativity died to its power.



@ Trans,

really trans?

You think I have done nothing to give ideas on how to fix it?

My whole existence on the forums is based around me trying to return the game to its former glory.


Every thing I criticize, EVERY thing I suggest is to try and help the game.



Do you wanna know whos idea it was the remove enhancement yet keep stat flexibility of weapons?

It was me.


Dow you wanna know who disputed the TLM, The azreal cores, and many more game breaking ideas BEFORE AND AFTER the implemented them?

I was involved.

If you care to look closer, I have given an alternative to EVERY SINGLE THING I have spoken my disliking for.

Just because I don't do it EVERY SINGLE TIME I mention my disliking to something does not mean I haven't done so.

If you really want to me to go so off topic to state some of the ideas I have come up with over the last 3 years to try and help the game then I can.

But perhaps this is not the place.



Do not get the wrong opinion about me, Like I said before I am not rushing anything I want the devs to take as much time as they want I just hope that they use this time to go in the right direction.

Like what JDB said,
quote:

I just hope one day the path shall split into many more like it once was.
This is what I want, You can argue all you like about how variety is apparently the AMOUNT of skill etc one has, That is your OPINION my OPINION is that variety is the amount of viable options players are left with in terms of both builds and strategies.



Surely you cannot blame me for ignoring rabbles promise for a change in game mechanics when I have NO IDEA what their intentions are on the matter, for all we know they could be planning on doing the opposite of what I would prefer and HENCE why I stress my opinion now because unlike what you think, I AM TRYING TO HELP THE GAME, I'm not criticizing it because I like to, I am criticizing the game because I don't want it to get worse/make more mistakes and given their record can you blame me?



JDM -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 9:55:17)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjGOcFSwSg

That right there is probably my most favorite build from the old days. I thought it was pretty creative incorporating luck into your build as part of your strategy. Ive used builds similar to that one and have stretched them out up into Omega despite all of the changes they've done to the game. But with the recent change of passive turning into activation skills, builds like those just don't really seem possible anymore and for the most part have died off. Luck was part of my build and i used it as a strategy towards winning, and it was great fun. With the way things are now though, Ive sorta pretty much been restricted to follow that "one path". I pretty much have lost my freedom of choosing a build i so desired once again. Over my time here playing EpicDuel Ive noticed somethings such as luck have always been complained about but if you think about it, luck isn't really luck at all if you incorporate it into your build because it technically becomes part of your own little strategy. There are ways to counter luck through purely skills alone as there are for other things.

Yeah sure for example people complained about the Str Bounty a lot in Delta just as much as luck, but the only reason i believe it was so hard to counter for most people was because of the amount of stat modifiers people had, and the lack of a energy draining skill/stat buff or debuffing skill. Str i believe was also an imbalanced trade. Str was obviously much more useful than Support and with the addition of all those stat modifiers people were running around with, people could go off dealing high damage without sacrificing much of their Dex or Tech at all.

Honestly, with the way the game is now it really just feels bland. I remember if you wanted to counter something you had to make sure you had the right skills for it as well as the right stats and you had to time all of your skills precisely. Now a days i just don't really see it being much like that anymore at all. With all of those many many additions of anti counters (mainly from some of the skill cores and robot specials) and all of the restrictions that have been implemented into the game, its almost as if it doesn't matter what builds we have because its just come to a point where its blatantly obvious that theres a counter for everything. In a way, it's like we're all just battling rough copies of ourselves and thats no fun..
Sure, we still do have to time our skills precisely but as been said earlier, where has the variety or freedom in builds gone?

This is why i agree so much with you Remorse.



Remorse -> RE: Content Vs Balance. (11/30/2013 10:05:04)

^ I completely agree with you too my friend.

quote:

Yeah sure for example people complained about the Str Bounty a lot in Delta, but the only reason i believe it was so hard to counter for most people was because of the amount of stat modifiers people had, and the lack of a energy draining skill/stat buff or debuffing skill. Str i believe was also an imbalanced trade. Str was obviously much more useful than Support and with the addition of all those stat modifiers people were running around with, people could go off dealing high damage without sacrificing much of their Dex or Tech at all.


I used to say the exact same thing all the time when their was enhancements, now that their isn't the devs could of taken advantage of that so much more in omega.


quote:

Honestly, with the way the game is now it really just feels bland. I remember if you wanted to counter something you had to make sure you had the right skills for it as well as the right stats and you had to time all of your skills precisely. Now a days i just don't really see it being much like that anymore at all. With all of those many many additions of anti counters (mainly from some of the skill cores and robot specials) and all of the restrictions that have been implemented into the game, its almost as if it doesn't matter what builds we have because its just come to a point where its blatantly obvious that theres a counter for everything. In a way, it's like we're all just battling rough copies of ourselves and thats no fun..



I agree with you here as well, but I will point out that direct counter aren't necessarily the problem it's the counters that counter, counters. As like you said being able to avoid anything, essentially being "counterless" makes things
quote:

blatantly obvious




I have long since missed the day when build making took into consideration of when to time your skills and what you could use to beat certain strategies should you face it in battle.

Now like you said battles are just essentially obvious battles with similar versions of builds and strategies.




As for that build, it was one of my favorites too, I remember using it all the time whilst leveling up alternate account BHs and I agree luck can easily be incorporated into strategy, the same way strategy can take into account for luck possibilities and minimize it's effect as well.



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