no energy drain skills (Full Version)

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The Hidden Legend -> no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 1:26:56)

why not take all energy drain skills out of game or let only 1 class have 1 unigue energy drain skill? draining energy is strategic to some extent but now its simply who has the better energy drainer, and isn't it somewhat ruining strategy a bit becuz stealing energy takes away the ability to use skills and that gives 1 less options




DarkDevil -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 2:55:20)

and what class would that be ? bh ? they were that since beta.

also as one have smth then all will so every class will be equal.

every class has a way to gain or destroy energy now so if you run out of energy you can simply regain it.




The Hidden Legend -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 4:22:41)

some are a lot weaker than others such as energy parasite vs static grenade, also its stupid to drain,gain,drain,gain and same cycle over and over, fights take waaaaaay too much time and 1 energy drain/generator will most likely always be stronger than the rest so whoeveris the class with strongest or best energy drain/generator will win and obviously every1 will go that class. and I didn't say take away energy skill from 1 class, I said take from all and leave on 1




DarkDevil -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 5:09:45)

the idea of energy drainers or gainers is to put strategy and not everyone have alot of energy and keeps nuking.

energy parasite gains 1.5 drained because it's main purpose is gain while static grenade gains 50% of energy because it's main purpose is to drain.

bountys are criplers so they need a good drain while bloodmages are leechers so they need a good way to regain.
it's just how it fits how any class works.

if every class had battery backup and emp some classes will be at a disadvantage as bloodmages cybers and bountys since they don't need too much energy and needs to keep hiting due to unreliability of nukes.

also it can kill diversity where everyone just goes for tech build and max battery and emp and just keep draining and gaining untill it gets boring , also it makes classes with different build capabilitys like tlms having no tech build bad.




kosmo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 6:55:01)

we dont need to remove energy drainers and regains, we just need to make them all equal;
atm the dominant classes are the one that can drain and regain the max ammount of energy, which are bh and tm.

tm: assimilate gets more orless 20 and gives u back 10, battery gives u 37; the total energy drained and regained is more or less 67.
bh: drains more or less 45 and gets 22; the total energy drained and regained is 67.

what we need to do is to make this calculation for each class, at the point that all classes can drain and regain the same ammount.




DarkDevil -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 7:00:00)

it's the same in all except bloodmage.

ch can drain up to 60 and regain 10.
tlm can regain up to 37 and drain 40
mercs can drain 35 and regain 25 IIRC.

it just costs energy for tlm and ch to drain.
and ch need a regain boost , i wish trans idea gets done.




toopygoo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 8:14:02)

its all the same except in blood mage? my friend, have seen a mercenary in the past few days?

This claim that they need to be equalized is very valid in my opinion. I'd like to put something in perspective for you:


earlier this year, it was noticed that merc quickly became mana stuck, so they gave it a mana draining skill which could match the energy gaining skills of mages. Everyone complained how it was so OP, how it was unfair, and then the holes were proven that it can get blocked, it doesnt gain any rage, and if you have no, then they cant drain it. Eventually it was accepted as a great skill, not OP, but a staple to merc builds, as otherwise they would run out of energy too fast. At this point in time, there multiple counters already to this skill.

In the latest few updates, that the developpers have added for strategical purposes was the requirement to have energy for not only skills, but cores as well. On TOP of that, PASSIVES cost energy too now! wow! what an update, man the raging that day... i remember it as if it were only 4 weeks ago... oh wait..

ok well, because people complained so much about the success of static smash, the devs included even more ways to counter it:
gave Tmage, and Tmerc HUGE free energy gain. This was a good solution, as it is productive for any build.
gave Tmage a stronger drain, with only half the leech of what it had before
gave Bhunter a energy leeching skill. This was unnecessary. people complained that they needed energy regain, that was wrong. BH excelled at taking down defenses, finding the chinks in the armor and taking opponents down; NOT tanking. The correct solution IMO, would have been to reduce BH energy drain to 5 mana cost, and keep it fixed at 5, regardless of how much it drained; thus you coulnd use it forever, but it still gained a nice boost to what it was before, and more room for stategy
Give BM an energy leeching skill. This one; yes. This was overdue. the way this one was implemented was magnificent. A smaller energy leech, with 100% efficiency of the mana they steal, not effected by stats, but the the energy your opponent has. although it was unnecessary, i think it is a great addition to BH skill library, and i have no complaints about this one yet.
And they drove CH into the ground, by gicing them no new energy regaining skills, and no new counter to static smash.


As a result, apart from CH, Mercs skill static smash can be countered by EVERY class, as they have better Mana regain/stealing techniques. although one can claim that BM is still weak, i think BM is weak in the right areas, ad has plenty of other strengths, due to the synergy between its skills.

do your remember when static smash first came out? what it felt like having (potentially) more than half of your energy drained, and 2/3 of that assimilated? now imagine if every class had that ability aside from yours. That is what it feels like to play ah cyber hunter right now. The one step up from cyber hunter is merc, as their energy regain sucks, and their skills cost too much, and they have no other synergy in their builds except support, and a rather risky strength build. Bm comes next with its ability to 100% successfully initiate a leeching skill, but that leeching depends on their opponents energy which their opponent is fully in control of, and can just drain themselves, to give back no energy. Tmerc is the only class woth an oppertunity for tanking now, and other trial is futile. TM has the tech synergy, or strength synergy, or support, the problem with TMerc, is that it has no debuffs, and facing another attempting tank with a debuff, it will most likely lose. Tmerc can drain and regain energy effortlessly. Next, Tmage. Man i love this class right now. I have a 25? 26? tm... its beautiful, because with just 32 energy, i can cast overload whenever i want. On top of that i have a regenerator and assimilate. I never have the problem of running out of mana against lower levels as they do not know how to set up counters. TM, for all purposes has the best energy regain and synergic potential, the problem is a lot people arent willing to mess around to find a successful build for them. and finally we get to my favouriate part: bounty hunters. The skill given to these guys is 5 times worse than static smash. Although they have no other real mana regain, it drains more than smah does, guaranteed. Also it is unblockable/undeflectable, you can make builds that do not require it still, and include for the sake of having a counter, AND it has the same cooldown/cost as static smash. the only counter currently to this skill is mana regain, which only 2 classes have.


so, no it is not all the same.

i want you to try this out: whatever class you are, trying playing it for its opposing puspose: if youre a mage, play only energy drain, and debuff. if you are bounty, play only tank. if you are CH, play only buff. You will see what it is like to try to play a class for not what its meant for. It is HARD. especially with all of these other people falling into blind energy draining classes, and the new skills costs.




DarkDevil -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 8:51:14)

they made bh static grenade gain energy because even tms had a better way to regain energy than reflex boost.
also because it didn't make sense for something to increase defence and gain energy on damage you take which was contradicting.
also because every class had a reliable way to regain energy except bountys.

the concept of static grenade is fine it's just how it might be abused by some which is actually due to the ................ unplanning ....... of others.

it does drain more than mercs but it regains less because its main purpose is to drain since beta and this won't change.




kosmo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 9:23:32)

well static granade was a mistake made to compensate to another mistake (battery+assimilate).

whatever, the energy drains and regains arnt even near to be equal.

mercs: static smash is blokable, and the class cant have a good shield due to the high cost for it to be effective.

ch: static charge its affected from enemy defences ,and in a tank world this moove will give u at max 10ep 90% of times, emp granade is 4-5 points stronger than static grande whit the only difference tht insted of giving u back energy it cost u 19ep

bm: energy parassite can be nullified just using energy

tlm: atom smash is blokable and still cost 15 ep at max, this class is the only class whitout a debuff.

well it doesnt look balanced to me




DarkDevil -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 9:33:57)

emp needs to scale back with lvl.
also about static charge trans has made a very good solution about ignoring 50% of enemy armor in the regain only so it becomes (weapon dmg -50%of enemy armor)*0.7 which i hope they implate.

i also agree on the point of assim being OP to others , it is half as strong as static grenade and deals damage and gains rage althought it has 15% less damage it doesn't break the part of it being an effective no-cost energy drain and regain without even wasting damage and is on a class that already have the most effective way to regain energy.

anything compared to it will fail including static smash or static charge or static grenade or even parasite.

any kind of energy regain skill being used will easily be countered by this since it has "no constrains" as draining 10-15 energy from the enemy is worth it while other skills won't.




The Hidden Legend -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 10:09:49)

kosmo, either that or remove from game, do u honestly think all energy skill will ever be equal? toopygoo, synergy for bm doesn't matter if your losing most of the time




kosmo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 10:42:19)

dont get me wrong, i also agree tht a total remoove of draining AND regaining skills would help balance;
but trust me, my suggestion is more realistic of yours, and it would also bring more variety

i belive that atm solving the energy gap between classes would solve most of the current balance issues.

after that, the only problem would be the buff and debuff gap, which is a minor issue but still rilevant for some classes (mercs)


ive posted my suggestions in this threed that sadly had no feedback :/
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21525222






toopygoo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 12:16:49)

@the hidden legend


People arent using it the way it was meant to be used (or as i BELIEVE they intended it for use...) mages are supposed to have an energy regain, that is consistent, thus you would have to apply it the first turn, then you have room to use cores/light skills, which is great because of bludgeon, or low level health regain. Blood mage is now more a tank/damage class, the problem with it is that there no longer are any Tank builds. the leaves everyone resorting to damage/strength builds, however, energy is used up too fast now, and leaves massive gaps in armor




The Hidden Legend -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 16:11:54)

toopygoo, the problem with bloodmage is their skill parasite is to weak and thats why there are few tanks because bh just eats up their energy.




toopygoo -> RE: no energy drain skills (11/30/2013 16:45:14)

you dont understand... its not BH eating up their energy. Its everyone. Same with Merc. and CH. anyone who has higher mana costs associated with staying alive has given up their ability to deal damage, with the exception of mage, who in turn has given up their defense (which still works). What is needed for the game to be set back into balance, is overall lower costs.... make every 1/3 cost/drain/return. people need energy to keep the battle going, otherwise, it just becomes a battle of strength. this does not just go for blood mage, but for ALL classes.

there arent few tanks. There are no tanks. seeing as with a tank, you deal little on people with low defense, and and they are still capable of hitting you high, with sheer power. This disappearance of passives has taken the element of individuality and a lot build potentials as you cannot rely on any skill anymore. at all. Anything can be drained, and you cant plan on having a defensive battle plan. Defensive is gone as it take half you starting mana to have a shield for 4 turns. ... you can still get critted, rendering them practically useless for one of those turns. you can still get stunned, which again decreases the purpose of a defensive plan.

Now if you leave players with ENERGY then suddenly they will actually begin to strategically use them, regardless of their cost. The only problem with high costs is that if they are worth casting, then they will be drained so they cant be used. And if they let you use them, then they are probably not worth casting. This is not strictyl to BM', but it refers to all classes.




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