RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 5:32:31)

@ Edwardvulture

cleanse was never 85% it was only 80% when it first came out. Also buff this bot sorry but no don't agree with that one. They are already nerfed debuffs which in hurn buffed this bot indirectly. No need to buff this bot more and make debuffs even more worthless.



DeamJean -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 9:19:44)

This bot does not need to be nerf. The balance with this bot is just fine.

You guys say that a tank can survive with heal and survive for 10 rounds to deal insane dmg to u but i personally who use a IA cannot take dmg from glass cannon up to 10 turns. Ican only tank 10 turns if the opponent is a tank. The bot has its own special which is a one shot high dmg attack and the normal isnt anything much. As you say the poison bot have its counter by healing it away but at late game u cant do that too. Have u thought of it at late game u cant heal the poison bot same as u cant heal in late game to survive the 1 shot so according to u guys the nerf of IA should o the ground too. I also nerf the poison bot tmean why not according to ur logic since both are strong bots in late game.

Dont mean to bring nerf to any bot just a comparison



Scyze -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 10:07:59)

@DeamJean,
If I use Poison Spores, I can have it deal 6 damage per turn; in total, it deals 27 damage over 4 turns. Now Infernal Android can probably do 35+ against a tank (after Round 9 from my experience); 48+ with Rage - thus not many people have Field Medic above Level 6. Poison can be countered by using Field Medic but Infernal Android's Special has no counters, along with many others.

Most players say it's OP because it's mainly used with Rage. So really, what's the problem here? Is it Rage, which adds 15 or so more damage, or its Special which (IMO) is fair?



Steel Slayer -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 10:19:11)

@Scyze- Rage doesn't add damage, it ignores armor. It's also gained based on how much defenses the player being attacked has, so the simple answer for rage, is to just have less armor. Your opponents will gain rage slower, and it will mean less when they do get it. Hence the reason we now see so many builds with low armor and 100+ health, even in 2v2.



Scyze -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 10:22:39)

@Steel Slayer,
quote:

Rage doesn't add damage, it ignores armor.
I am aware of this but when you ignore the opponent's defences, you deal more damage.



King FrostLich -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 20:39:36)

This bot has been nerfed several times and with a buff to hp, it shouldn't be nerfed at this point of time.



Remorse -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/16/2013 20:46:54)

Buff to hp??
Lets not forget this bot was introduced when hp scaling was 2 per stat point not 1.2.

Plus people need to stop considering its changes and just look at the power of something.
People consider its number of nerfs to something to determine if that thing is balanced... it is balanced when it is balanced plain and simple number of changes mean little to nothing, excpet for perhaps just how broken that thing was to beggin with.



Ranloth -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/17/2013 3:00:23)

All of ED was statted at the old 2 HP per stat, does that mean whole game is overpowered? We've had buffs to HP - increase in base, making it level scaled - so let's not forget those.

I actually forgot about it - in early Omega, Bot's base damage was raised by +3 and Focus was nerfed by... -2 per Focus, for up to -10 damage (or -7 with the increase). Regardless of the fact it was statted on old HP scaling, it was nerfed via Focus (indirectly) and the Bot itself took few hits (directly).



DeamJean -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/17/2013 12:57:47)

A heal before a overload is the simplest counter to hdefend against a IA special



xxxromanxxx4 -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/17/2013 16:15:25)

I think it is worth saying that when skills say 30% bonus to damage or something like that, they mean that give a 30% bonus to the damage you woulda delt, not the base damage.
This is also why you dont get str mages using 50% bonus dmge skill and dealing (90 dmge - 30 def) = 60 dmge. Instead they deal (60 - 30) x 1.5 = 45 dmge.

Anyway with that cleared up...

5 focus pet build with high tech = 35 + 20 dmge (this is a lot) = 55 base dmge.

130% of 55 is 71.5 dmge (maximum damage possible)

assuming person has 35 resistance: 55-35 = 20 dmge

If special attack is used with no rage: 20 x 1.3 = 26 dmge

If special attack is used with rage: (55-17.5) x 1.3 = 37.5 x 1.3 = 48.75 (rounded up to 49 dmge)




Now 48.75 may seem like a lot but it is only 9.25 dmge more than if a yeti was used. Added to this, the yeti has other attacks that make up for it.


In conclusion, if you are using a focus build, using the android gives you a substandard robot with a benefit of making your opponent 9.25 hp lower. (only useful if you want to surprise kill people)




Predator9657 -> RE: Inferna Android (special) Too strong? (12/17/2013 19:59:03)

quote:

I think it is worth saying that when skills say 30% bonus to damage or something like that, they mean that give a 30% bonus to the damage you woulda delt, not the base damage.


Incorrect, the percentage bonus is based on the base damage NOT "the damage you would have dealt" (base damage minus defenses).

Since the assumption you based your argument is wrong, your point is subsequently invalid.

In other words, your claim that:

quote:

In conclusion, if you are using a focus build, using the android gives you a substandard robot with a benefit of making your opponent 9.25 hp lower


is wrong since the actual figure (which you did allude to):

quote:

130% of 55 is 71.5 dmge (maximum damage possible)


is 16.5 (71.5-55) extra points of damage (so 16.5 HP lower from your perspective).

Furthermore:

quote:

assuming person has 35 resistance: 55-35 = 20 dmge

If special attack is used with no rage: 20 x 1.3 = 26 dmge


Normal attack - 20 damage - correct; however, special attack is not 20*1.3, but rather 55*1.3 (as you did point out earlier).



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