See opponents actives. (Full Version)

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Remorse -> See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 9:41:03)

I know a lot of people are for or against this and I am one of those people strongly for this,

Basically we should be able to see the actives and perhaps place them in a list below the passives.

Reasons being is you can't execute plans without knowing what the opponent can do,

However this is also the same thing that people like about this.



Those people strongly against seeing the actives may I ask would you consider a core passive that when equipped allowed you too see the opponents actives, given it's effect perhaps make it an armor or primary passive core?


What do you guys think should we be able to see actives by default or only with a core, or not at all?





Rayman -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 9:47:13)

quote:

should we be able to see actives by default


Agree, We should be able to see the actives by the fault, Sometimes I mess my strategy and I end saying, * :/ He had that core, Should of used X Skill*

quote:

Basically we should be able to see the actives and perhaps place them in a list below the passives.

Not to sure about placing them below the passives, maybe they can drop the hp/ep Bars a bit and add actives above and Passives below, Or add the passives below if theres no other place.



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 9:54:10)

^


How about making 3 lists like so:

HP: [ 100 ] [ lvl 36]
EP: [ 60 ]

A: *Image* *image* (A=active cores/robots)

P: *image* *image* (P= passive)

TE: *Image* Image* (T= temporary effects, eg sheilds, debuffs, )




Rayman -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:02:44)

^
That could work too or maybe some little Icons on the player builds, they can add them there with the size of the old achivements, when players had the cheevos in small size right next to the rank.



Altador987 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:10:15)

not supported
as one who is against it i think it takes out the fun of the match

quote:

He had that core, Should of used X Skill


that's like saying he had Y robot shoudve done this instead and yea you shouldve and prolly couldve won but winning isn't everything and the opponent was smart enough to conceal it until a certain point as a gamechanger

quote:

you can't execute plans without knowing what the opponent can do

yes you can and you do know what your opponent can do you just don't know EVERYTHING, all you need is a backup plan and a little educated guessing it's not like there are thousands of cores to choose from



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:14:41)

^

I have been down this discussion many times, and the fact is some people don't like having to guess in strategy, others do.



Lets not go too far into it as it is most likely a stalemate either way.


what do you think about this however?
quote:

Those people strongly against seeing the actives may I ask would you consider a core passive that when equipped allowed you too see the opponents actives, given it's effect perhaps make it an armor or primary passive core?



Give in mind that someone has to sacrifice a amour/primary passive to use it, which does not seem like much but in the future whe their are heaps of cores it will be a bigger deal.



Also you can't say guessing is fine because their is not much to choose from as that is not allowing for the future is it?



Ranloth -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:17:57)

I'm actually 50/50 about this. On one side, it allows you to improve your strategy by knowing what to expect,but at the same time, it enables easier build copying and takes the surprise factor away - Sometimes you will take some precautions and make sure your build can cope with most strategies out there, so you know how to counter it.

I can't say I support nor not support. It has its pros and cons. It's mostly an issue with normal weapons which don't have locked cores - ones with locked cores are easy to predict because you can remember what the core does and know what to expect already.



Rayman -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:23:56)

Altador:
quote:

that's like saying he had Y robot shoudve done this instead and yea you shouldve and prolly couldve won but winning isn't everything and the opponent was smart enough to conceal it until a certain point as a gamechanger


Actually No, My case is completely different to Robots and I didnt lose or won, it's just a case that happends quite a few times.
And why would it take the fun of the match? the battles were fun way before they implemented cores. It would take the random factor (Skill core) out of the battle not the fun.

Trans:
quote:

It's mostly an issue with normal weapons which don't have locked cores - ones with locked cores are easy to predict because you can remember what the core does and know what to expect already.

Yes, This is true 100%



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:26:17)

^ You have a point trans

With the current state of balance and game mechanics, players do tend to just hop to the next best thing and without surprise they can be hard to deal with.

However, I am assuming that they will be able to fix balance and the mechanics of the game at which time variety and sheer quantity of cores will justify the veiwing of the actives.


Though I can agree with those against it for the mean time whilst their are more serious balance matters at hand.


However this should be something to keep in mind, and perhaps take into consideration when making cores/ changing balance.



Mother1 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:28:39)

@ Remorse

and with this you will kill psychological mind game plans that some opponents find fun. Some people use that as a plan to throw their opponents off and while you might not like it others do.



But putting that not aside, I could support this if balance was actually better than it was now. Because lets face it as you mentioned bad balance is the cause of build copying, and putting this idea into play would give any build copiers even more rain to copy builds down to the cores. (unless it is a perma rare core)

If balance were better I wouldn't be so iffy about this, but since it isn't I would give a temporary no until better balance comes.



Altador987 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 10:30:14)

quote:

battles were fun way before they implemented cores


i know, however the devs wanted to add something new and exciting and cores emerged but what's the point in a core if your opponent already knows how to counter it before you've even used it, for the more special ones everyone knows as it's to a specific weapon, but for things like frostbite and meteor shower there isn't much point as you can make situations up for each as there aren't that many to choose from

@remorse
i wouldn't be against it (i wouldn't but it either) but i simply don't see the point to it



FritzieIvane -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 11:58:43)

@Mother1

yes agree!



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 13:24:12)

Neither for nore against this suggestion. At this point in time players should have an idea of what core someone has based on their build. For example, at late I've noticed if I don't see the block core or deflect on Tact/Tm I should expect Piston punch which is more times than naught the case. If this was implemented, the next we'd be asking for is can we see our opponents robots cause they effect just as much opponent's builds as any Icical shard or energy shot.



Altador987 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/5/2013 19:35:43)

but you can see their robot just do like you would to fame them and look at their items



kosmo -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/6/2013 18:05:43)

supported.
i was dreaming for this since cores got relised, a change that could only bring more strategy to the game.



Shajun Ki -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/6/2013 18:55:11)

Hell no. How about we all agree to get rid of these stupid cores? They aren't interesting or exciting whatsoever. If anything they're just annoying.



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/7/2013 1:38:24)

^ I can somewhat agree with you since a lot of the cores they have released have just harmed balance,


But cores potentially can fix balance and increase variety and fun.

Though when you consider all the great suggestion from players for actual NON game breaker cores it seems like a major missed opportunity.



xxxromanxxx4 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/11/2013 18:35:19)

The thing is that all the passives that you buy separately are quite basic in their abilities and don't effect you too much in terms of strategy (except for the energy shot and piston) but even then when i try and apply strategy i have a pretty good idea what cores they will have.

1. do they have any special weapons that give special cores? (memorize the looks of them - not too hard cause they all look unique)

2. where are their armor points on (if they are on tech then you can be pretty sure they will regain their energy at some point. If on dex there is a heal or a mana steal possibility. If they are spread out evenly there is a low chance they will be using piston...)

3. look at their pet damage. If they have 15 base and they using a focus build it is likely it is an android.

4. If they have a habit for draining your energy then they might have energy shot core.


The only cores i find hard to predict are energy shot and concussive shot. Mainly because they are quite uncommon and also because concussive shot is so bad I don't even consider it and ironically that can be fatal if your opponent lucks and puts field medic on cool down.



Predator9657 -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/11/2013 20:22:28)

This would be good because having more info on your opponent encourages strategy, and leaves less room for guesswork (there is already enough luck factors in this game).

I can't really see anything wrong with this idea since you can already tell what active cores people have when they are using weapons with locked cores; this would also make it more fair for those who are (since all active cores would be known rather than just locked ones).



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/11/2013 20:43:01)

Good point,
That is another reason I didnt even think of thanks.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/12/2013 0:08:21)

I would support seeing actives.

While I am all for the element of surprise, I feel that this really should only come from the opponent's mistake. Simply being surprised because there are multiple different possibilities for actives really isn't strategic at all IMO. It's like running through a smokescreen only to get killed by a camper who knows people will run through it. If you want to surprise your opponent, you should do it through things like rage where sometimes the opponent doesn't bother thinking of whether or not you have it. Or, to surprise, you could pull out a core or a skill at a strange time which chains into a follow-up skill, which yet again is 100% predictable but not many bother to do it. Just guessing what active core out of 5 different possible ones is really more of a guessing game than strategy.



Remorse -> RE: See opponents actives. (12/12/2013 0:16:20)

^Exactly how I feel penguin.
Thanks for explaining it better then I can.



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