TLMS need a buff (Full Version)

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AssassinOrd3r -> TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 11:53:24)

tlms who were regularly tank have been nerfed and brought down to mere support builds that rarely work (lose rate zooms while wins decrease) the tank builds end up working like for 2 or 5 battles then it disappears tlms need a buff if you guys dont beilve me look ta ur battles against tlms see if they support or tank most are support because it only wrks but tlms were made for tank remmeber the before passives got removed it was fine tlms tank were perfect we could jug and what not looking at it now i have asked people what they think of tlm they said they would never go to that class because support builds are easy to counter and tank builds end up failing also what is with deflections happening way too often

tlms should get a debuff move and i think mineral armor should be buffed by like 5% at all levels because even with like lvl 6 mineral armor does not protect from smokescreen and with a new skill a i think it may be a buff tlms needed to get back on we dont really use field commander and its basically useless we need something to debuff opponents cause all we can do is sheild our selves which does nothing honestly but waste a turn and while every other class gets a debuff ability ours got taken away i say we get smoke screen or malf this will make tank much better

Merged double post since post in between has been deleted. ~TG



Ranloth -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 12:51:28)

Uh, invest in Dexterity for better Armor. I don't know how it doesn't protect against Smoke, if my TLM (31) gets... +18 (or +16) from Level 4 Armor, whilst Smoke will take away around -40 Dex which is... 10-11 Def.



axell5 -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 13:01:48)

as trans said, the mineral armor gives you based on the dex you had at the start of the battle, it's not a shield for a support merc but for a defensive, and with max battery, some heal, a little surgical and poison you should just try to out tank them, if you tell me you can't beat a BH 100% of the time it's normal, they are the OPest class for their static grenade. Btw, you should now know that when 2 people face each other they hAVE 50/50 chance of taking their oponent down, so it's up to your strategy and moves(and unfortunately lucky cores) to win a match. Also, have you seen classes like BM or CH? Sure they have debuffs but BM's energy drain and regain skill is weak vs people and CH can't get anywhere near 15 energy if he tanks+ almost no synergy with skills.... oh and CH's debuff's scale has been removed so i guess smoke is the greatest debuff as of now due to it's sale ability+synergyses with takn builds.



xxxromanxxx4 -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 13:33:33)

thats precisely the problem though... TLMs cant use a 'little surgical and poison and heal' to out tank because they lack energy.
With a max battery it will regain about 36 energy at level 31 which is not enough for a decent surgical and although can be used for a poison or a heal, the likely outcome is that it will be drained because a decent tech mage and BH build has a drain doing 20 (If TM) and 40 if a bh. Mercs have static smash too and will be waiting on you to battery. This leaves only the CH and BM... but the chances are that they will be using strength builds because those classes are offensive atm meaning that the turn you have wasted gaining energy (although not actually wasted) means they deal 15 damage to you while you miss out on a potential 15-ish damage you could have dealt to them because of their low def to compensate for their str.

If TLM try full on tank builds they are not that effective.


IF TLM try strength builds they lack a debuff.

If TLM try support builds they succeed with 50% win ratios which is really depressing (one of the better builds)

IMO the only build better than a support build is a poison build with avarage str to then use the mana drain and prevent a heal.
The only thing that annoys me with that build though is that the mana drain blocks...

The reason TLM have been hit so hard is because the armour that used to provide def ment they could focus on tech and make a big surgical strike while powering up their pet. Now in order to get good def from the skill they need to invest in dex which is counter intuitive. Therefor what you have done is lower the TLM synergy by removing the passive.

I think they shouldn't be given a debuff because that is not the way TLM are designed to be used.

I think the main thing is to reduce the power of bounty's who have a significant dominance over TLM because, when a TLM batterys, a BH can use static grenade and gain enough energy for perhaps a smoke. TLM cannot drain and also cannot counter the debuff.

I reckon giving bountys a mana recover was a big mistake because they were already a common and powerful class. I think what would make the game better is if the bountys MOB cost nothing and also regained them a bit of energy per hit while the emp would be bought back.


Also it would be good if the battery was made stronger for TLM because, unlike the mage that abused the energy, TLM needs at least 41 energy for a chance of a surgical above 20 dmge

Merged double post. ~TG



Mother1 -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 17:22:38)

A debuff to just to counter one class? Here is an idea, how about instead of giving a class something to counter one class we tone down the class that is causing problems?



AssassinOrd3r -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/10/2013 17:44:03)

im hoping we a get a debuff move because i mean we should get one to lower a stat or somthing while other classes can debuff us we cant do anything to debuff them

tlms are a dying class we need a buff of some kind to improve our tank builds we are stuck with support atm and honestly thats gets really boring after the 10th battle where tank you actually had to think

Merged double post. ~TG



Dual Thrusters -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 0:44:14)

@mother

If we nerf a class, we will make many players discouraged. However, if we buff Tlm, which as you can see does need, then everyone is satisfied.



DarkDevil -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 0:48:27)

the main thing destroying the class are double strike and frenzy , because giving it a debuff with the current state of it will make abuse by str builds.

fixing this is simple replace frenzy with smoke and make double strike require club , this would also balance mercs since they only have maul and static smash requires club.
requiring a club on double strike will increase its scaling by an extra 15% at max which is about 2-1% per lvl.

i have said this before in another thread but it didn't get noticed.



kosmo -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 3:05:08)

i dont understand why, after that passive are gone the tlm class is the only class left whitout a debuff, there is no probable issue whit them having smoke, str builds are not a problem, this build become more popular recently but it works only tnx to a broken core(heatchling rush).
what i mean is that for sure strenght abusing builds are not a valid reason for them to not have smoke.

thing are changed, classes that were focused only on passives now are left whit nothing, and ppl are still afraid some simple mooves could overpower the ridicusly underpowered classes (all classes apart bh-tm).

one thing is to give a smoke to a tlm whit a passive mineral armor and a passive reruote, another thing is to give smoke to a tlm that doesnt have absolutly nothing apart from surgical.



DarkDevil -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 3:35:53)

actually its because of frenzy and retour reacting badly , and a strong boost named double strike , adding smoke wouldve caused bigger mess.
so my suggesstion above should fix it.



kosmo -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 4:45:44)

bh has cheep shot, venom strike and massacre, ch has the same mooves whit malf , this are more or less all strenght based mooves, and they are not causing the umbalance (since the reasons of umbalance are different).



DarkDevil -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 5:30:51)

the only pure damage increase skill is masacre which requires wristblades , as much as venom and cheapshot but they are not pure damage increase.

bludegon is physical so it doesn't snyrgy with malf.

this is why i said frenzy must go , they already got battery which can pay for the abscence of a hp regaining skill , as it will cause unbalance when mixed with smoke.

lastly double strike must be tied to club to balance both mercs , and get an aproporate boost to pay for the constrain , since it will snyrgy with smoke too.



kosmo -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 6:35:21)

so bh can have granade and MoB, but tlm cant have frenzy because of battery? doesnt make much sense

and bludegon is on tm i was talking of ch...



DarkDevil -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 6:57:27)

ch isn't any different from bh , i used bludegon as a proof that no class with a defence debuff has a snyrgy.

static grenade regains a max of 25 at 140 tech so even at 140 tech and enemy having 50 energy you still can't loop both smoke and MOB while battery regains 37 energy so you could loop both , also limitlessly since it doesn't need enemy to have energy.



xxxromanxxx4 -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/11/2013 18:14:32)

@darkdevil i think your argument about battery being used for looping is flawed as it is easy to be drained as it has no other effects... e.g all other energy effects in game have another effect attacked to them such as draining mana or dealing dmge but the battery is just one thing: pure energy nothing else. This means that it does not put the opponent in a defensive position because you have not directly effected them. meanwhile a bounty can use their static grenade that has a cooldown synced with battery thus making a TLMs energy gain: 0



DarkDevil -> RE: TLMS need a buff (12/12/2013 0:35:00)

yes , this is astimating you are always fighting bountys or the enemy will always drain you.
but since this is not always true it should be droped , also the fact that you will not start with 0 energy this means you can abuse it before you run out of energy.
it is just to prevent abuse , none of the clases have an offensive skill that snyrgy with their defence debuff.
not because a class is underpowered means it should go up to being overpowered , and this is how it will be balanced.



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