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Ranloth -> Focus (12/13/2013 11:21:35)

Before I start, I'll use two references which I will link to once or twice throughout the post.

Rabble's post: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21510618
Robot Technology Bonus: http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Robot_Technology_Bonus

As Rabble has mentioned, Focus is one of the areas he will be looking at, eventually, to match lower weapon damage. Main aim of the change will be to prolong battles, which is one of the projects which Rabble is undertaking right now.

From the Robot Technology Bonus entry, we can see it works like our standard stats - +1 damage per 5 stats, then +1 damage per 6 stats (55-84), and lastly +1 damage per 7 stats (85+). This shows us Technology can have a great impact on the Bots, and some builds can take advantage of it - for example, Caster TM with 150'ish Tech, they can effectively use Botanical Hazard's Poison, due to fast progression, despite the lack of Focus!
We also know Focus gives us +4 damage per Focus, for up to +20 damage at Focus 5. We can already get to Focus 6 (50 stat points in all) but that's another story.

Without going further into the numbers area, I'm suggesting a buff to Focus alone and a nerf to Robot Technology Bonus. In other words, we'd end up with roughly the same damage as we have now but Technology wouldn't play as big role - rendering some Bots not abuseable with very high Tech, and allowing bigger variety of Focus builds to get decent damage from Bots.

I tried going for a Dex build on my BM char, which means I would have to shift around 40 of my Tech to Dex, and that would account for 5-6 damage loss on my Bot. Since it plays a crucial role in my build, and I still have Focus, I couldn't go for it. Neither did Support leaning work, because of the Tech improvement. Why should it get that much of an advantage if it's just like any other stat? Logically speaking, Tech makes sense but it gives too much of a bonus - and it makes some builds easy to abuse with some Bots, as well as giving them too much of an edge!

Few questions to you guys:
  • Would you rather see Focus reworked and be fair for all, or keep its heavy Technology lean?
  • Would the change be beneficial for some builds or disastrous for most?
  • Have you got any other solutions? (if scraping Focus from the game is one of those, please don't bother)

    You don't have to quote the questions and answer those - these are only to start off the discussion and give you a rough idea of what areas you should cover.



    • Remorse -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 11:49:55)

    I don't think focus should improve robots at all.

    Concept wise it's silly, how does having more focus increase robot damage?


    Secondly focus should be used to increase Standard damage as in the damage which up until now has nothing increasing it.

    Eg. Fire scythe, toxic grenade start damage etc.


    Focus is currently too strong as it forces all medium builds to use it or be at a disadvantage to those who do, therefore constricting variety.

    Players shouldn't be forced into any build just to compete.


    Robots should possibly increase with a combination of either technology and strength (50/50 each) or technology and support (50/50 each).
    Their fore making it extremely hard to abuse as you need 2 stats high to try and abuse it which would be impossible to get to the same abused level as if it were one as the limitation in stat numbers.



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 12:51:57)

    the only thing good about focus is that it prevents abuse by tech builds.
    if focus was removed then tech builds will make a huge abuse of bots ,especially bountys , imagine them no longer tied to supp.



    Mother1 -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 13:08:36)

    @ Darkdevil

    Most of them would still use support to power up their buffs. When I face non focus BH if I debuff them they just keep attacking where as a focus tech BH would use the correct buff to counter it. Especially since they don't get huge damage output without combinations.



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 13:59:51)

    1. it's not really heavy tech lean , it's 15 + 20 + 10-22 with the difference being 12 its not that heavy.

    2.i think it being on tech balances the game since tech is the least stat if you compare it to other stats , most tech builds are tech builds for bot not for tech itself with an exception being tech mages.



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 14:19:59)

    I'm not suggesting removal of Tech scaling, but making it slower, so it won't give that much of an advantage to Tech abusers, and Tech leaning builds alike. In return, I'm proposing Focus buff from say +4 damage to +5 damage - depends on the Tech reduction - so it still has ~the same damage, but doesn't make it superior for Tech abusers (see examples of Caster TM + anecdote, in the OP).



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 14:44:03)

    making it better for tech abusers actually balance it on the lower part , for somone lvl 30 that can have a focus 5 builds , he can't have 100 tech too , so decreasing tech power and increasing focus will increase them too.



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 14:46:37)

    In essence, it's making it weaker for Tech abusers and stronger for non-Tech leaning builds, and getting rid of the abuse with very high Tech. *looks at Botanical Hazard's Poison*

    That's pretty much the whole change. It gives fair advantage for everyone, when using any Bot - damage or effect - and not just one type of build, yet, it still retains its Tech bonus, just slowed down. ^^



    ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 18:00:27)

    Leave focus damage alone, there are fine, it's just Android and Poison that are the problem. Even golden yeti is not used over these two, there's a clear problem.



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 18:39:12)

    Uh. If you read carefully, my intention is NOT to nerf Focus, but change how it works whilst it retains the same damage.



    FrostWolv -> RE: Focus (12/13/2013 23:06:34)

    I agree with trans .... as it directly solves some major issues like poison bot and infernal bot .... and 5-focus tank tec synergy skills.


    By increasing the base gain from +4 to +5 (or something) in each focus upgrade and slowing the robot damage stat progression from technology is a all in one solution.


    Supported


    @ Trans nice post



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 3:31:01)

    what about instead of increasing focus power , we increase another focus lvl.

    everyone at lvl .... 40 can afford 50 in all stats , and reducing how tech work so it won't unbalance lower levels.



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 6:18:55)

    If we slow down Tech progression, say, by double of what it is now, we need to buff Focus as a stat - from +4 to +5, or whatever. Without increase in power (Focus) and slowing the Tech progression, it would be quite a big nerf - an unnecessary one. In regards to Focus 6 (50 stats in all), yes, it can be done - mentioned in the OP - but that's probably going to be done with Level 40 increase. *will try poking the Devs about it*

    And, as I've already said, it solves Tech abuse and gives non-Tech abusers, almost same advantage with Bots, as Tech builds. Not as big, since they will retain the Tech scaling, but slower. In no way, I want to nerf Focus. In fact, this can be seen as a buff to all builds and solving some issues, directly!



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 6:46:22)

    the only point keeping tech this effect on bot damage is the bot power as whole.
    a bot + focus 5 = 35 at least , with 45 tech you are at 7-11 so this sums up at 44 damage.
    a lvl 31 aux with 45 supp reaches that.
    for a lvl 36 it is 49 damage which is 5 dmg stronger.

    this can't be solved by increasing focus power as it will greatly affect lvl 29 than lvl 36.
    for this reason i see increasing focus level better than increasing focus power.
    because a lvl 31 won't reach focus 6 but a lvl 36-40 can this will only buff higher levels without causing unbalance in lower levels.
    also its not really a buff its a capability increase since you'd either put 20 points in either tech or divided among 4 stats for the same effect , also making bots more varied than just tech.



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 6:59:14)

    That's why I'm not focusing on the numbers as a whole, but the concept. I'm not the one to balance it and I've explained the concept and the reasoning behind it. I always focus mostly on the concept, with some numbers to illustrate it. :p



    DarkDevil -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 7:15:45)

    numbers are to just illustrate how it will affect both and that not to balance one you'd unbalance the other.
    tech abusers only have as much as their weapon is.
    in other words their weapon is of 40 dmg and so is bot , if it is about the hazard then those are the ones who should change but not cause unbalance umong others.
    currently hazard can only do 16-20 dmg over 4 turns (+3 initial) which seems kinda balanced.



    Altador987 -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 16:55:27)

    supported as i like the idea that a robot's normal and special (like poison) would depend on pure focus rather than focus plus tech, it would further resolve the issue of too much advantageous tech synergy within the bounty hunter class and make people aware of the cost they'd be taking with a certain bot and no focus



    Ranloth -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 17:35:22)

    Not pure Focus. It would still have the Technology Bonus but slowed down - like diminishing returns, but slower than they are now - so Tech won't have as big impact.



    Dual Thrusters -> RE: Focus (12/14/2013 18:03:26)

    I support this topic.

    Focus Strength/Support should have just as much robot damage as Focus Tank.

    It would also be nice if we got focus 6 or even 7 with the new level cap.



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