Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 4:50:09)

The new increase to level 40 will surely be a great feature however I predict certain issues born from small constant level increases past level 30.


What is the issue?

If you notice weapon damage increases by +1 per level when you reach around level 30 which will cause issues with overpowered offense at level 40.

Why?

Defenses has nothing increasing it per level except for amour which increases at a much slower rate (only +1 every 2 or 3 levels), this means people will either have to stack all their new stats gained from leveling into defenses or switch to highly offensive builds restricting variety and further needing diminishing returns on stats, as well as indirectly weakening skills like intimidate which become weaker as the difference between weapon damage without STR and their defense is increased which makes STR less important and makes attacks still strong even with a 100% Strength reduction from intimidate.


Solution?

I personally think they should cap weapon damage at level 40 to: +30 damage for class specific weapons and guns, +31 for swords, and +33 for auxiliaries and +8/9/ for amour , HOWEVER as a result remove the diminishing returns on stats and increase the amount of stats available on weapons per level increase.

Result?

THIS IS NOT A NERF TO OFFENSE, what should happen is without diminishing returns and the extra stats on weapons per level it becomes possible to get the same overall damage as what you would get as a level 40 however instead of being forced into having higher offenses through high weapon base damage and lacking the ability for defense to keep up with weapon damage progression, the capping at lower damage means variety is increased as you are not forced to become an offensive build in either STR or support, though it does remain fully viable, if not even more viable.


The removal of the strong diminishing returns will not make builds abusive because just as easily as you can stack STR you can stack defenses to compensate the only difference is that focus builds will have less of a bonus as stacking stats in a category becomes less taxing and opens up more creativity and therefore having average stats is now as optimal as every other stat investment. And it also makes counters like intimidate, malf and smoke more viable.


Obviously tweaks would need to occur as they become visible but hopefully this will solve the issue with weapon damage scaling to high and defenses not being able to keep up to compensate.
Perhaps small increases to HP and energy scaling would be required also as diminishing returns becomes less restrictive.


Opinion?
-Remorse Less.



Ranloth -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 4:58:50)

It doesn't always increase by +1 after Level 30. We didn't get any bonus damage from 35 -> 36. There's a formula behind the scaling, not made-up numbers - so changing one, will affect all the others.

Furthermore, based on the screenshot from Twitter, HP and EP went up by x10, whilst weapon damage went up by around x6 only. Not sure about defense, but it seems to be between x6 and x10. So weapon damage did take a nerf already.

It's kind of hard to say "it will be overpowered" for sure, when there are massive changes on the way and the current system will be no more. We don't even have info on how weapon damage itself was changes, since ranges have been added altogether, so it may've been lowered already.



Remorse -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 5:04:27)

^ That is good to know trans,


And I wouldn't really say offense is taking a hit since it does scale up faster per level then defenses, so naturally it needs to be lowered but that does not mean it is being Nerfed.


After seeing the 10* thing it is possible they have already taken the issue I have brought up into consideration which is great, if not let this post serve as a reminder.



Ranloth -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 5:12:31)

They wanted to do the x10 ages ago, but engine limitations. Omega allowed them to do it and now is the best time to do so as well - after passives are gone, cores have drawbacks (more balanced at least), etc. Many rounding issues fixed, each stat gives you bonus (which was decimal before, thus not visible), etc.
But yeah, weapon damage, based on the values in the screenshot, seems to have went down - compared to HP. %-based skills shouldn't be an issue, since these are indirectly nerfed with it, so they are likely focusing on skills that use values; these need to go down too.



Remorse -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 5:18:11)

^ Great news,

Hopefully it comes out as good as you are making it :D



Ranloth -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 5:19:35)

I have as much info as everyone, from the screenshots given by the Devs. Numbers can still change, but their aim is to make fights longer thus reducing impact of luck, in the long run. :]

Only issue will be getting used to big numbers... Surviving with 1 HP will be much more hilarious though. XD



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/19/2013 21:48:52)

Won't get get bonuses on our armor too?



Predator9657 -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/20/2013 10:31:23)

^ Yeah, armour point will increase too.



Remorse -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/20/2013 10:45:38)

^ I mentioned that, but it increases at a slower rate compared to weapon damage therefore it does not cancel out.


maybe the increase to 40 will grant 1-2 more armor points but probably, 3-4 more weapon damage out scaling the armor.


But also this is currently already an issue even without it being 40.


Skills like intim are no way as near as useful as it was partly because of the weapon damage increases at a faster rate to defense.

Changing the weapon damage but allowing more freedom in stats will hopefully increase variety viability.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/20/2013 10:52:23)

I mean base defense, doesn't that increase with level?



Remorse -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/20/2013 12:16:56)

^ Don't think so hence the thread,

Though I could be wrong since I'm not that up to date with post omega changes.





Stabilis -> RE: Lvl 40 weapon scaling issues. (12/20/2013 13:09:34)

No, base Defense nor Resistance increases with level. Neither does damage from stats. Only items increase.



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