static grenade (1.5.42) (Full Version)

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santonik -> static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:06:11)

It is very good even now.

no need invest support at all and still get certain about 300 energy damage (max lvl) It is extreme good if boynty invest 45-70 support. it is old op static grenade. 100% hit.
can this fix. decrease that starting power this static grenade.



(why 2 classes can be op to others classes) (why 2 classes is game best skills )( when is fix time to 6 classes balance)



Remorse -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:15:52)

Or give free costing skills a cost :)

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21537904



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:18:02)

Why don't we remove the skill altogether and leave a gaping hole in the BH skill tree?



Remorse -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:23:29)

^Because every class should have every type of skill,
heck lets make all the classes the same...



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:32:41)

I was being sarcastic, Remorse.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 7:49:42)

^Seemed like he was too.



Altador987 -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 9:07:11)

also the skill is pretty crappy now as it's both a drain and a regain and regain isn't even usable so we should probs leave the grenade alone or fix it's regain and lower it's steal



DarkDevil -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 9:07:24)

i think this is a tiring problem.
static grenade is a tier 2 skill so it is really only usefull to drain.
possible solution about this is as following.

1. replace static grenade with stun grenade.
2. then replace static grenade with poison blades and make it require mark of blood instead of stun grenade.
3. then add a high dex requirement (25-43) and increase the regain up to 60%.

it will be balanced by both tiring and requirement while giving enough regain.
stun grenade can work as a tier 2 as does bunker and overload.
poison blades can work as a tier 3 as it does on ch.



Steel Slayer -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 9:23:22)

This is a pretty good idea, darkdevil. 60% sounds like a bit much for a free skill, though, maybe 50% like it used to be?



DarkDevil -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 10:19:15)

well the way it will only be usefull for focus 5 and some kind of dex and supp offensive builds.
the dex requirement will be inversely propotional to the smoke so it you will need more dex/supp to use a lower amount of tech and increase the points used in it.
so the regain is a lil bit high to make up for the extra requirements , to balance the investment in tech and dex and supp for the class.
also dex/poison builds need alot of energy , so its far more than just smoke or mark.

yet the final word is for staff , it could fix alot of problems especially in the early and mid levels and prevent some kind of abuses on the high.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 16:47:58)

I don't really mind it now. I think the whole idea of so many crazy powerful energy regain skill was a bad idea. Classes did fine the way the were before every class had to need one of these. ED was done a major disservice with the recent updates.

Back in the day if you wanted to spam max level skills you invested in energy, this game has put a pacifier in too many players mouths letting the game to the strategizing for them. I continue to play cause this game is great to play while I'm at school or watching a movie, t.v, etc but man I find it astonishing that I still wish this game was in its varium crazy delta phase (coming from a non var)



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 16:50:47)

man, they need to fix tlm T_T. I step out of BH and all i can see is myself getting pwned. it is not my build. when i was a BH i did fine vs str, but now i can see how truly OP everything is from a tlm's view.



Mother1 -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 16:50:50)

@ valkyrieknight

This is what happens when classes complained about not having a way to get back energy when they had something else in exchange. With Merc I could understand since they didn't have passive health of energy regain in any shape or form, but for the others who complained about it they should have seen they had something the energy classes didn't.

Now to add injury to insult those same energy classes don't have a skill to give them back health with every attack for X amount of turns while health classes have both.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 17:17:39)

Are the Devs so prideful that they refuse to undo their wrong doings? These last updates were not influenced by the players were they? This is all them.



GearzHeadz -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 20:48:06)

This skill either needs to be put back on tech, or have the gain increased to 40%. Because currently, it is hardly considerable as a gain. It is mainly just a drain.



Steel Slayer -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 21:41:22)

Gear, it's still a free drain, I get through lots of fights without ever even using it, BH doesn't need all that much energy if you play it right.



Teserve -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 21:49:32)

@above
Agreed, BH didn't need a large regain to win, they were a very strong class.



GearzHeadz -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/24/2013 21:50:25)

You're right. But whenever I face a techie or a merc, it makes the skill look bad. While in comparison to the other classes, it is still a decent skill.



DarkDevil -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 1:45:28)

quote:

it's still a free drain, I get through lots of fights without ever even using it, BH doesn't need all that much energy if you play it right.

the current bounty state violates the rule of each class effectively regaining energy making them weaker than other classes in using cores and fight duration.

in other words , its not that they don't need it but they MUST have a good regain for balance purpose.



Remorse -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 2:27:41)

^ COMPLETELY wrong,


It was NEVER a rule that all classes must have a regain for it to be "balanced"

Balance IS NOT making everything the same.


If they make everything the same then guess what battles become PURE luck and circumstance and it is disgusting that people think this would be classified as fun.


If anything, it should be a rule not to give classes the same of everything, it ruins variety and ruin the game simple as that.

Want evidence look at any successful game with classes, they know that if they give every class versions of the same thing what is left is a pathetic game.


What makes me sick is people look at class as being weaker blah blah because they don't have something...

Can't we comprehend the fact that whilst their are disadvantages in some areas their are advantages in others.


Why do we have to assume that balance is making everything the same...


If you look at any game with successful variety and reasonable balance you will find it is the un-comparable differences in between the classes is what balances them out.

You can't compare the ability of a BH to have sustaining HP with a mages sustaining energy and therefore they are chosen on preference of the user to their advantages.

If suddenly they start giving away some of the unique advantages of some classes to the other classes suddenly variety and balance becomes massively reduced.

Making classes similar is one of the worst decisions by the devs and something that has to be completely undone.


If that means making a new cost system (such as stamina) for cores so that energy constraints are not so high as to force all classes to need a regain then so be it.


It should be their goal to make classes much more unique starting by giving CLEAR disadvantages to classes but make up for it by clear advantages, NO class should be able to do everything, things they lack in can be made up for with substitutable cores.


BHs should be given the advanatge of being a strong high sustain high consistent damage output class, but as a disadvantage NO source of regain.



DarkDevil -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 3:58:18)

so you are suggesting to bring back bloodlust to make up for not being able to regain enough energy ?
and make static grenade not regain energy ?

what about cores ? you also want to make an exception for bounties to use cores for free ?

the stamina suggestion isn't implated so we should not suggest solution on a suggestion that isn't done.
untill it gets done , we are trying to balance for what we have , and we don't have stamina yet.

if skills and cores have the same cost on two classes then both should have equal access to energy .



Remorse -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 4:03:57)

^
Problem is what we have is almost un-balanceable.

Classes can never be balanced if they are so similar so perhaps we should be simply suggesting ideas to completely change the current system.



Though I do indeed see your point,
In the current system it seems we have to further harm variety to get it to work.
It makes me sad that the devs continue to do it like this but I guess if that's what is here now then we should try and help it out as much as we can.


I just could not stand by and say nothing to your post about it being a rule that all classes should have a regain though I know that this is what they enforce on us.
Sorry for going over the top.



CN2025 -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 4:10:05)

they changed the passives with out even doing a poll first to see if some players were okay with changing every thing and now all the classes are the same



Mother1 -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 4:29:45)

@ CN2025

as much as we like to think of epic duel as a democracy when it comes to these changes it truly isn't. While the staff will listen to our input on things, once they have their mind set on something they aren't going to change it just because a group of people don't like the idea.

Personally myself if it were up to me the active to passive change would have never happened since it puts too much stress on energy as well as cores costing energy. These two factors are what put too much stress on energy forcing all classes to have an energy drainer/gainer. It is what also sucked the uniqueness out of energy classes such as TM TLM and CH.



GearzHeadz -> RE: static grenade (1.5.42) (12/25/2013 9:42:34)

I would actually be fine with the changes to static grenade if tech mages didn't have such a massive grip on energy over other classes. I think now to be fair, the energy draining effect of assimilation should now be blockable, possibly increasing the drain with it to compensate.



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