Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (Full Version)

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ED Divine Darkness -> Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 6:44:19)

As we can see the classes right now aren't balanced. BH and TM are still dominating. In this thread I will post some of my ideas to give classes balance.

BH

Make MoB only usable once so that it can't be abused like it is right now. Or another idea, is to NOT make it proc with auto attacks, but buff it by 7%. make static grenade scale with nothing, but increase it's regain back to 50%, and increase it's base drain by 10.

CH

Reduce EMP's cost by 50 at all levels and increase its base drain by 30. make static charge NOT affected by shields or debuffs, but ignoring 20% of the targets defenses.

Merc

Remove Hybrid's requirement, and reduce the cost by 40. Also, make static smash unblockable.

TLM

Make atom smash unblockable and replace Battery Backup with battery impulse. This move will restore energy and hp, but 12 less than battery. so at max it would give 25 hp and energy, unaffected by hatchlings.

TM

Remove scaling on Assimilate, and reduce its base drain by 60. To make it fair for TM's, also make it 70% return to compensate.

BM

MoB will be the same ideas as for BH's( probably second idea), but make parasite have 10 less requirement and remove the cap of it acting as if the enemy has 150 energy. make it based on FULL energy, not CURRENT energy.

Rage

Reduce rage gain for the attacker by 15%. nerf rage to 35% defense/resistance ignore..

Spiders balance

Make it only effect field medic, but reduce field medic to 30%. Make the attack on spiderlings give NO rage.



PyroxideED -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 6:47:56)

I like what you're suggesting to everything besides, BH. Bit too buffed.



DarkDevil -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 7:04:04)

actually not , when dealing with stable numbers you are to give variable values , without stat scaling it will have +40 base and lvl*3 , also to remove the stat scale you'd have to give it a requirement as 18-36 supp req.

also the effect on bloodlust is rather unbalanced to be dealt with , even a 7% would OP the skill , althought even a 7% won't be enough to make up , the skill would create much unbalance.
also the skill can be used more than once for 2 vs 2.
better stay as it is.



axell5 -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 7:47:06)

i agree on everything except hatchling rush. Just reduce field medic by 50% and affects ONLY field medic. Also, i tihnk it should still give rage.



Teserve -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 9:18:56)

I think the TM nerf is a little too high. Maybe make the reduction to 40-50 and make it a 80% return.

I don't think assim needs a nerf though.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 13:48:28)

I think spiderlings could be changed, but the assim nerf is needed. Right now tm has the best energy control by far, its not even funny.


Edit: i nerfed static grenade to 10 extra points and made hatchlings only affect medic.



DarkDevil -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 14:07:14)

its not about the amount of points but that it should be variable because a lvl 2 , 10 , 20 , 30 , 40 will use it , having a stable amount doesn't balance it but on 20-30 what about the others ?



VanitySixx -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 16:07:24)

Supported besides making Static Smash unblockable for mercenaries. Because double Bunker Buster builds are actually not THAT bad, as my alternate mercenary account had a %71 on the 1v1 board (lvl 31).
Also, Berzerker does crazy damage. Making this unblockable is just allowing them to chock more strength and dex because they know for a fact they'll regain their energy back. Other than that though, definitely supported.



Pemberton -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/25/2013 21:53:51)

All your balance fixes look like random numbers you pulled out of your pocket.
No point in suggesting actual balance numbers if it is not based on data.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 13:12:32)

@above, no they are thought through numbers. you are not giving any proof to accompany your claim. it would be helpful if you gave me some constructive criticism, not just some trash talk.



Steel Slayer -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 13:51:58)

quote:

BH

Make MoB only usable once so that it can't be abused like it is right now. Or another idea, is to NOT make it proc with auto attacks, but buff it by 7%. make static grenade scale with nothing, but increase it's regain back to 50%, and increase it's base drain by 10.

The problem with MOB right now isn't the skill itself, it's all the things around it that make str/health builds so OP that make MOB seem OP, with any other build, MOB isn't a problem. Static grenade just got nerfed, why take scaling off, it would just reduce build diversity. I could maybe agree with increasing it's gain, but then the drain would have to be nerfed to keep it balanced, so I'm not wild about the idea.

quote:

CH

Reduce EMP's cost by 50 at all levels and increase its base drain by 30. make static charge NOT affected by shields or debuffs, but ignoring 20% of the targets defenses.

EMP has a cost because it's the strongest drain in the game, its fine how it is. Agree static could use a buff, instead of armor ignore, just have the gain based off base damage, not actual damage. It used to be that way in Delta, Static Smash and Atom Smasher work that way now.

quote:

Merc

Remove Hybrid's requirement, and reduce the cost by 40. Also, make static smash unblockable.

Agree with changes to Hybrid, also it needs to work off the caster's stats, not the target's stats in 2v2. If you want less blocks on static smash, get more dex, not all drains need to be unblockable.

quote:

TM

Remove scaling on Assimilate, and reduce its base drain by 60. To make it fair for TM's, also make it 70% return to compensate.

Dude, energy gain is the whole problem with Assimilate, NOT how much it drains. Just get rid of the regain and TM will be balanced just fine.

quote:

Spiders balance

Make it only effect field medic, but reduce field medic to 30%. Make the attack on spiderlings give NO rage.

Why does everyone want to overnerf this core so badly? If it had NO energy cost, your suggestion would STILL make this core so weak it would be unusable. Just change the healing reduction to 35% and it would be FINE.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 14:59:18)

dude, i changed spiders to only affect medic. if critical heal only affects medic, this should apply to spiders.



Ranloth -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:01:21)

Uh, where does it state that Hatchling Rush is meant to be a counter for Critical Heal? Not only the former deals normal damage and affects all sources of heal, Critical Heal is designed to boost your Heal if you're at a critical point (20% HP or less).

The two aren't even counters for each other, not in the slightest. It's only a counter if you get low on health, which makes it situational - not a counter.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:05:29)

I don't think he's saying it would be a counter, but simply saying this cores range is far too broad and like other cores, shouldn't affect all skills but simply one.



Ranloth -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:08:35)

It can affect anything it wants, if statted and penalized appropriately. One is passive, whilst the other costs you Energy to use and a turn as well. Comparing passive to active won't really work, because it's near impossible to do so.

That's the problem. The core would need to have an active counter version, or its effect penalized to make up for the lack of an appropriate counter - hence why players suggest reduction in power.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:10:42)

I would be fine if field medic could cure it.



Ranloth -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:12:42)

But... Hatchling Rush is designed to cripple the healing effects. Having Heal cure it would be... I think you know what I'm getting at.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 15:15:35)

It would cost energy, a turn, and only give a half heals worth of health back. I see that as pretty fair.



Steel Slayer -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 18:40:55)

Gear, you hafta consider 2v2 as well, if Field Medic cleared Hatchlings, you would then still have 1 FM and 2 generators to deal with, plus possibly MoB as well, the core would have done nothing. Hence the reason I keep saying to leave the effect as-is, and just reduce the amount to 35% or so, and re-evaluate from there. That would bring it in line with other reduction effects, like Assault Bot and Azreal's Torment. (35% inverse of 65%) Heals would be weaker, but still useful, just like shields or debuffs reduced by the other 2 effects.



nkc413 -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 22:42:33)

This game is like a replica of Diablo 3. After Heroes reach max level, Heroes earn Paragon level. In this game, Classes reach max level, Classes earn Ranks. Making a drastic change of having 10x idea destroys this game. Evolved classes which cost 50K make it worthless as basic classes are somewhat or rather perform better than evolved classes. I suggest replacing evolved classes with 3 new classes just like Diablo 3 ( Barbarian, Wizard, Monk, Witch Doctor, Demon Hunter and Crusader ), plus including unique skills that other classes do not have. Therefore, balancing the skills among classes. Removing gears upgrade allow gamer to get different weapons every time they level up to own new weapons to match their levels to maximize their classes performance. Last but not least, I believe Titan can consider to get gaming concept and ideas and customize to suit EpicDuel from Blizzard entertainment and other gaming companies so as to provide gamer a better gaming experience.



Teserve -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/26/2013 23:41:28)

@above
1. Epicduel is by Artix Entertainment, not Blizzard.
2. No.
3. This game bears no resemblance to Diablo 3.

quote:

Making a drastic change of having 10x idea destroys this game.

The x10 literally changed nothing in the gameplay. NOTHING. AT ALL.

quote:

I suggest replacing evolved classes with 3 new classes just like Diablo 3 ( Barbarian, Wizard, Monk, Witch Doctor, Demon Hunter and Crusader ), plus including unique skills that other classes do not have.

That's 6 classes, not 3. I do agree on the "all classes need unique skillsets" idea though.

quote:

Removing gears upgrade allow gamer to get different weapons every time they level up to own new weapons to match their levels to maximize their classes performance.

The enhancements allow players do to
quote:

maximize their classes performance.
There are not enough creds so continuously buy newer weapons, and ED would be Pay2Win again.

Epicduel is not trying to copy any other games, it is completely unique. Other gaming companies are not better than AE games in any way, they all have their own audiences. I would suggest not posting anything like this in these forums ever again, as it will never get any feedback whatsoever from devs. If you were going to post something like this, maybe you should consider making it's own thread so it does not get lost in the discussion.



Pemberton -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/27/2013 1:01:27)

There will be no build diversity as long as there are no limites to class changing.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/27/2013 6:10:37)

quote:

There will be no build diversity as long as there are no limites to class changing.

NO, there will be no build diversity as long as there is no balance.



Steel Slayer -> RE: Class Equality Ideas and Build Diversity (12/27/2013 9:12:28)

Pemberton, limits there IS a limit to class changes, its called cost. What happens if you change to a new class and don't like it? Why shouldn't we be allowed to change classes to find what suits us best?



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