Balance Problems of EpicDuel (Full Version)

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VanitySixx -> Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 22:58:29)

So here's what us players know:

1. Tech Mages have the ability to loop heal.
2. Cyber Hunter poison and massacre builds are overpowered.
3. Bounty Hunters were thought to be overpowered, until Cyber Hunters and Tech Mages found out their mainstream builds.
4. Tactical Mercenaries are very underpowered.
5. Mercenaries are slightly underpowered.
6. Blood Mages are nearly up to par in terms of skill, but their lack of energy regeneration and/or lack of ability to take the opponent's energy makes them weaker.

Here's possible solutions to get the game moving forward with balance progression:

1. Since Tech Mages can Assimilate which helps promote loop healing, add a Support requirement to this skill. Max level Assimilation should require 36 Support.

2. Cyber Hunters are on the rise in EpicDuel. Not many people may have noticed, but I sure have. I think Cyber Hunters should not even have poison. But since they do, let's not take it away.
I believe the developers should add on to the poison energy requirement. Making max poison go from a mere 280 energy requirement, to a 330 energy requirement. However, this will not stop them.
Static Charge's % is a bit high, but we can deal with that since CH needs a way to regain energy. But I believe when doing Static Charge, the damage dealt should not be 100%. It should be
85%.

3. Bounty Hunters were previously "Overpowered" because I guess nobody knew any builds to cope with the x10 statistical update. So now people have found builds for Tech Mages, Blood Mages,
and even Cyber Hunters making Bounty Hunters looking like they were never overpowered in the 1st place. But, I think they are just fine. I see some at 80-88% on the leaderboard so
BH's aren't really over or underpowered.

4. Tactical Mercenaries have a huge problem. Honestly, their current skills look like something the devs just threw together really fast. I only have one suggestion for this. Change Frenzy from
Strike damage to Auxiliary damage making the stat requirement 37 Technology at max level. This could help their support builds because all of us Bounty Hunters, CH's and TM's know that
when we see a Support Tact, we know it is ALMOST a free win. (Unless the tactical is a higher level, or they use their poison correctly).

5. Mercenaries are actually not that bad. I would just improve their starting health at level one from 550 to 570, and starting energy from 540 to 560. That's it for them and they are good to go.

6. Blood Mages aren't bad either. They do have a problem though. I think Energy Parasite is just a bad idea and needs to be erased all together. Replace it with Assimilation and they are good to go.
This also goes hand in hand with Tech Mages because if this is implemented, Assimilation will have a Support requirement so Blood Mages will also have that requirement so they wont just
spam strength and have easy wins.

These are all ways that the game could be balanced at it's current condition. If the balance in the game even changes slightly, these ideas will not work at all.




suboto -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:06:49)

I agree with this all. Im a tlm but frenzy for aux could be oped due to spammable aux hits but if u suggest it puts it on cool down then i support.
I as a tlm doesnt want to be oped cause when we get oped we get nerf,nerf,nerf, and more nerf, and months later another nerf xD but ya i support.
how would u feel about field commander changed to intimidate?




GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:07:54)

Really I don't see the fuss of that new cyber build... Not really OP. Use some shields so they can't static charge some energy, drain them, heal up. Then demolish them because of their weak defenses. Only time I lose to them is when their land a ton of hits or crits. They typically get blocked and deflected a lot due to their low dex and tech. That's why I think its a perfectly fair build.

I read everything else and I don't agree with most of it.




VanitySixx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:16:41)

the Cyber Hunter build is a quick win 85-90% win ratio. That's what makes it OP. Usually a high % build like a Loop Healing Tech Mage or a 5 focus BH will take around 7-14 rounds per game.
Or a quick win build could be 4-6 rounds per game with a 65-73% ratio. But it's just the fact that it's a quick win AND high % build is all.

And if you have all of those skills available to stop one specific class, you won't do so hot v.s. the other classes.




GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:22:08)

Says who? I do.




suboto -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:23:53)

another thought on frenzy possible ideas:
work same but for aux
cost zero energy similar set up like tm assibilation skill
weaker version of mark




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/5/2014 23:47:20)

I still find Cybers easy, they're only OP if your hp is low as dirt. Add points to hp already.




FrostWolv -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 0:09:24)

@VanitySixx

saying OP by yourself doesnt proves anything .... give us a screeny of 90% winrate of Poison-massacre CH ... then only I might agree with you. As far you ago with Static Charge, its only for Str builds and CH went went to take energy by dealing damage from the day 1. Sometime i feel its worse than Assimilation against tank build where assimilation deals almost same(85%) damage and drains 22+ and gain equal energy. And you want SC to become even more trash ?


Saying a skill is op or up is ok but ....
Saying Classes are ok based on one build that you can not defeat is pretty nuisance. What if I dont want to Strike my opponent till eternity? What if I want to use other builds for my class?




The Hidden Legend -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 0:18:54)

I don't think that support req would do anything. 5 focus tm has 45 supp anyway. Strength tm can take off a couple points here and there to bypass that. Same with dex tm. The most it would do would nerf strength and dex tm very very slightly. Cyber is not op whatsoever imo. Nerfing their static charge would just make any other build even more useless. I think they should have a better way to regain energy because static charge is not good enough if you are not a strength build. A non-strength cyber going against a tank would have a pretty hard time I would think.




Altador987 -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 0:47:22)

1. what's your point in pointing this out...
2. cyber hunter hasn't been on par for quite some time most of the skills are the weakest of their type, static charge is crap unless you have a LOT of strength how about we leave them alone or buff them instead
3. bounties were balanced and then nerfed immensely but the regain added a chance for variety
4. idk how to fix tact but i don't think that's the way to go about it i think they need more use for dex
6. the skill could use a buff but simply giving it the same skill as a tech mage is why it and other classes struggle to begin with




xxDantExx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 5:59:51)

what makes this new release more imbalance is the fact that Blocks, Crits, Deflects, and Stuns work more than 70%...
u have a very high Dexterity and u get stunned or blocked by the ones w/ the lower dexterity...
u have a high supports on ur Focus 5 build and u get Crit by a very low support...
u have good average technology for ur Focus 5 build w/ an armor deflection core and ur shots are being deflected w/ low technologies......
IMO, i think devs should also take a look at these issues as well rather than nerfing all classes....




Hellion Storm -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 10:56:44)

lol cyber being op? Have you ever been a cyber hunter?




VanitySixx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 11:10:19)

Yes I have two Cyber Hunters. Level 33 and level 35. Now, I wouldn't say THEY themselves are OP. It's more, the combination of poison and massacre. Many Cyber Hunters do not know the correct
way to create, use, and perform this build. But those like Caity 1000 (who changed from being CH because she agreed people were changing to it because it was OP) and this other lvl 40 guy in
Dark Vengeance. Seriously forgot his name -.- He was an ex member of Super Latinos. What's his name? Anyways...

It's only a matter of time before every cyber knows the correct way to set this build up. I've seen many try this and fail because they use their stats wrong or plug away at Strength only
or attempt to have over 1,800hp. Whenever they find out how to operate this build, you people will see ^_^

EDIT: And if any of you Cyber Hunters would like to try this build, Ik the set up and I'd happily meet you in-game to give you the correct stats, skills, and combat information so people could see how this build is
legit amazing. :P




axell5 -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 11:17:44)

i would like to try the right way because im a 37 and don't really know how to make the stats/skills correctly for that level, pm me so i can see how "OP" they are. Pm me where to meet




FrostWolv -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 11:51:11)

@ VanitySixx

No offense man but really its a naive comment .... i know that build and its a "OK" build (i dont use it) .... and it can be easily countered. Please give us prove for 90% winrate in that build.

You want my proof give a click here, a level 37 Strength BH kills (Massacre+Poison) level 40 CH with pure skill.


You are just having hard time against this build and are only one who is not just complaining about this build but also demanding to nerf this class skill.




VanitySixx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 12:06:55)

I don't lose to them at all lol. It's just that when I see extremely high percentages numerous times with different people using the same class and nearly exact same build, I tend to believe it's OP.
The only other OP class is definitely TM because of Assimilation, and when I was in DV and our Cyber Hunters had the best % every single day with over 130+ fast wins, I just believed it wasn't right.

I guess if so many people believe that build isn't overpowered, then it isn't. Like I said, I can beat them. Just making sure everyone else is alright.

EDIT: And I'm not demanding for this class to be nerfed. It was just a suggestion. From my battling experience, I'd say the only class that should be nerfed is TM (because I am a TM and it's definitely OP).




FrostWolv -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 12:08:53)

Next time dont post thread on the basis of just "BELIEVING" ......... post on the basis of proof and statistics.




Altador987 -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/6/2014 13:26:12)

as a cyber hunter myself, i would never look for the op build (plus i have a poison bot so i dont see a point in a poison skill) but one build doing "ok" while just about anything else is a complete struggle isn't OP, also it simply doesn't look good when you state "we" as in a general consensus of many players when it would seem you've talked to maybe 2 or 3 players to make statistics




VanitySixx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/7/2014 10:45:20)

Frost you act like this entire thread is about nerfing Cyber Hunters. It's not. It's about the true balance problems of EpicDuel. The Cyber Hunter suggestion was from my beliefs, and from what some friends that use and abused this build was telling me.

And Altador, I did not say Cyber Hunters were OP. In fact, Cyber Hunter's to me are balanced out. I said THE BUILD is OP. And the players that I spoke with are the only players that use the build. I have not faced any other players besides the ones I witnessed or spoke with which is only a few. Other Cyber Hunters do NOT use this build or they use it in a different way (adding more massacre than they are suppose to, adding more Health than they are suppose to or adding less Dex and Tech like the build I am describing).

And if you take account into what I said in my original post, I said the game can not be changed AT ALL if these were implemented. Because let's say for example everything I said was implemented BESIDES the Cyber Hunter idea. I came to the conclusion that that build would become Overpowered and could have multiple forms of the build instead of just one.




Altador987 -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/7/2014 12:10:54)

would you mind posting a screenshot of this if you get a chance, i'm trying to piece the stats together and all i can imagine is the support strength build that tech mages were using and i can't see that working so well for a cy hunter




toopygoo -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/7/2014 13:11:37)

i am having trouble with this build, but thats cause everyone i've seen use it has a 4 level advantage over me :/ lol

ive gotten close though.. the difference would be 1 hit. and sine i dont see them too much i i wouldnt rebuild to counter this :/

whats annoying though is thaat for the last two days or so, ill play mayb 50-100 gmes a day (i dont have a whole lot of time... maybe an hour or 2) and ill fight like 5-9 level 40's in a row... Its really demeaning suffering multiple losses in a row... they should make it, on top of of the hour limits, that you cant fight the same person 2 times in a row. period. It might mean sometimes waiting longer.... but generally it could keep morale up which i think is a much greater advantage than longer wait times...




VanitySixx -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/7/2014 16:34:17)

I'll post the build and possible weapons and cores you'll need in the Strategy section when I get the chance. I've only seen a lvl 40 do it. So if you're lower than 35, this isn't the build for you.

Many people attempt to chock away at the Strength and Support because that's what they believe works, but it is not. It's more or less a form of a 3 to 4 focus build (but you never use your bot).

All I know is your strength doesn't have to be crazy high and your defenses don't have to be dirt low. If any of you remember the old Delta Strength BH builds it's kinda like that with poison for CH.




Altador987 -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/7/2014 18:43:05)

if it requires a certain weapon i really can't agree with it being op




FrostWolv -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/8/2014 8:35:10)

@VanitySixx

You just said
quote:

Frost you act like this entire thread is about nerfing Cyber Hunters. It's not. It's about the true balance problems of EpicDuel.


Well the thread which you wrote did mention.

quote:

Making max poison go from a mere 280 energy requirement, to a 330 energy requirement. However, this will not stop them.
Static Charge's % is a bit high, but we can deal with that since CH needs a way to regain energy. But I believe when doing Static Charge, the damage dealt should not be 100%. It should be
85%.


Well you might have said it on your belief but reality is different. I have no reason to go against you.


Do you know why this build cannot be OP?


Reason no. 1: Removal of level Scaling of Malfunction. While their is buff skill whose level scaling is still implemented called Energy Shield and other armor shields like PA,HA and BS.

Reason no. 2: Further nerf in massacre is done when they lowered the weapon damage by 2 .... as the formula of massacre works on weapon's base damage.

Additional Info:-
The Support Massacre build emerged in end of Delta if I can recall but faded away when glass canon build of TM emerged in Omega coz CH needed to invest on tech to get full potential of their passive Plasma Armor.

@below thanks for mentioning EDITED




GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance Problems of EpicDuel (1/8/2014 8:40:06)

Malfunction doesn't scale slower, just has higher stat requirements.




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