Give TLM smoke (Full Version)

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ED Divine Darkness -> Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 19:18:03)

This would be a needed buff



Mother1 -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 19:19:11)

Could you explain your reasoning for why this is a needed buff?



SKRALL213 -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 19:33:13)

What reason why TLM needs smoke? To me right now all TLM needs is a little buff, LITTLE buff. But I do agree it could have smoke to make it a bit better.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 19:36:16)

I do agree with this suggestion.

This class could use a buff to some skills in some areas, but it could also use a nerf to toxic grenade. This poison ability that the class possesses has a 5 advantages over the other poison skill venom strike. No stat requirements, no weapon requirements, higher poison damage, 1 turn less cool down, unblockable. The only downside to it is that it deals 15% less damage. Its a strong, spammable skill with no requirements that is unblockable... Not really a fair skill, but is accepted because the class isn't very powerful.

This class was originally made to not have as much offensive skills as mercenary, because smoke would already weaken the enemy, making it so heavy hitting skills wasn't needed. But people complained that since it had a passive armor, a debuff was too powerful with it. (I never saw that logic, because cyber hunter didn't lose its debuff) Ever since it lost smoke the class has been on the weak side. The class would be on par with other classes if it got its smoke back instead of field commander.

Another way to buff this class that I see would be to give it blood commander instead of field commander and give frenzy a base 25% crit chance.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 19:42:12)

I look at all balance threads but never post. You've earned my post today.

This is my answer for obvious reasons.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 20:01:47)

I can see what the reason why you dont want this by looking at your character page and guessing your build.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 20:14:13)

Obvious reason are not so obvious.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 21:43:45)

Are you guys crazy? TLM had smokescreen before and it was extremely overpowered. Let's not let history repeat itself. Bringing back smokescreen to TLM's would be like giving diamond blades back to bounty hunters and the 3 hit supercharge to techmages again.

TLM's have moves that revolve around strength, and they have energy regain.

Heres a scenario for you, a tlm smokes you you, he has 93 strength and after he smokes you he double strikes, then he uses stun grenade which does physical damage to stun you, after that he uses rage frenzy getting back tons of hp, then he gets more energy, heals, smoke again, and repeats the process.

TLM will never have Smokescreen again, because it was likely the most OP build Epicduel has had in comparison to other builds around it.

quote:

I can see what the reason why you dont want this by looking at your character page and guessing your build.


Thanks for the ad hominem. But I assure you I only wish the best for this game.



Mother1 -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 21:51:49)

@ chosen

TLM also had passive armor, and passive energy regain as well. Now their isn't any passive energy regain or passive armors.



Ranloth -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 21:54:23)

Actually, TLMs were overpowered back then due to Maul + Frenzy + Smoke + Tech-related-bonuses combo, not because of Smoke on its own. Maul is gone. Frenzy had quite a hefty nerf since the initial release, Smoke has had a mini nerf, and Technician is gone.

Not mentioning various changes to stat progression. Stun Grenade with your example is dependant on luck - Strength build and weak Grenade that may not stun, will result in a waste of Energy + poor damage. Any build can dump L1 Stun and say their build is OP because I have x% chance to stun. It may work on paper, but not in practice.

The only reason why Smoke was removed was... not the synergy either, not 100% at least. There was "3 skills rule" rule at the time; each class could have 2 out of 3: passive EP or HP regen, passive Armor, and a debuff. Ashari covered it before - it was either Reroute or Smoke being removed from TLMs, and she has decided it will be better if Smoke leaves, because Reroute was crucial for TLMs, in order to compete.

Next time, it's good to double check on some info - because, Chosen, you are a tiny bit wrong with your post. Whilst your opinion is yours, it's neither wrong nor right, whilst the facts are true.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 22:02:43)

[:@]I heavily dislike admitting I'm wrong, which is why i don't like posting here.

If TLM's get smoke though, one move has to leave.

What I dislike about mercs getting smoke is that it will be a vital move for them to compete. Debuffs are skills that the class usually has to invest skill points into or the build won't work as well.

I think the effects of multi and smoke could be pretty OP, assuming the enemy doesn't put up a shield.

Threads suggesting move switches are likely to change though unless theres lots of evidence that supports it. If this change were to happen the pros and cons need to be put in place. There needs to be a reason to get this done, and right now TLM doesn't seem too bad too me and isn't high in the list of things that need to be done.



Ranloth -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 22:20:31)

Hue, I like being right. XD

I'm not exactly for bringing Smoke back in particular, but they could use a debuff at this stage. Perhaps a unique one, and defensive at that - sorta like Intimidate which is a defensive debuff, unlike Smoke or Malf. Regardless, I'm 50/50 about it.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 22:20:59)

Then wouldn't that make CH and TM op? Since their multis work with malfunction? And exactly, there is the option to put up a shield.

And of course one move has to leave. They aren't just going to get 1 more skill then every other class. It would replace field commander.



dfo99 -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 22:30:35)

wtf..



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/11/2014 22:37:42)

Could you elaborate?



Trollok!!! -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/14/2014 20:36:47)

I think it's a great idea. TLMs have always been known as the tanking class but this isn't quite the case for it anymore. So why not shake things up by giving TLM a more offensive edge? Would give more variety to the builds I'm sure. Not to mention, debuffs can be defensive maneuvers as well; in particular, Smoke can increase one's chance to block. Without the previous synergy provided by Maul and Technician, I'd say adding Smoke is perfectly acceptable.

Afterwards, I'd suggest a look at Blood Shield and Field Commander and then TLM should be perfectly playable again.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/14/2014 20:39:55)

In order for them to get smoke, they would have to remove field commander. But I do agree, it would promote way more variety and it wouldn't be overpowered anymore because they don't have the skills that they used to.



Trollok!!! -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/14/2014 20:43:20)

Oh right, I forgot about how a skill needed to be replaced; my bad xD.

Well then yeah I'd say remove Field Commander; no TLM uses it anyway :p



Prezial -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/15/2014 4:11:48)

If you want smoke to come back for tlm, other class will need some of the good old skills to come back too. [:)]



Ranloth -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/15/2014 4:24:29)

No they won't. There's no such rule, in balance, that bringing one back means others have to have old skills again as well. Unless you specify and justify it, no, they won't reverse every single change being made.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/15/2014 8:15:15)

@Prezial
Can you think of any other classes that desperately need a new skill so badly?



Trollok!!! -> RE: Give TLM smoke (1/15/2014 8:51:28)

Let's give Blood Mage Static Grenade? xD
I mean people complain about Energy Parasite so much. And Blood Mage's Support synergy is pretty much identical to BHs so I can't imagine it would be too OP.



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