RE: Juggernaut easy fix (Full Version)

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Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 19:58:55)

@Gearz I never said that I wasn't one of the weaker classes. I know I am, that's why im making my voice heard. I've made multiple threads about Mercs, but this one in particular is about fixing jugg. When I was comparing BH to Merc, I was saying it as if BH is wayyyyyy to strong to be on level with a Merc. And yes I have jugged with other classes besides merc. I also found it easier jugging with merc.......BACK IN DELTA! But Jugging is not only hard for me as a Merc, it is also hard for other people/other classes? Don't believe me? Goto world 0 Central Station right now and ask people why don't they jugg anymore.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:01:53)

Back in omega?.. It still is omega... They don't jug for mainly imbalance issues. The player combinations you said it was hard for you to play against mainly involved BH and TM. The classes you said were OP. So, it PROBABLY isn't jug, and just other things imbalanced.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:05:12)

@Gearz having imbalance automatically means that jugg is broken. BTW going against any class combination while playing as a Merc is basicaly an instant kill. Each class can counter a merc.

P.S you do know I meant Delta right? Lol



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:11:25)

Jug wasn't just around in Delta. I didn't know which phase you meant.

Imbalance issues doesn't mean that jug is broken. It means that there is balance issues, and that they need to be fixed. Before you buff jugs, why not see if once the bad balance is fixed that it is better? I can almost guarantee it will be. And plus even with your suggestions, imagine what it'd do to TMs and BHs going into jug. Already powerful classes stacked WITH a buff? Would be almost impossible to defeat them.



Xendran -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:15:42)

quote:

Imbalance issues doesn't mean that jug is broken.


Wrong, it's the other way around. Broken Juggernaut doesn't mean that 1v1 and 2v2 are imbalanced.
Broken 1v1 does mean that 2v2 and Juggernaut are broken, becuase it means there is a dominant class. If there is a dominant class, that means that the ability to be paired against two of them is real.
With this possibility being real, one of three things will happen:

Juggernauts are overpowered enough to deal with two of the dominant class at once, making any other combination trivial, leading to juggernauts godstomping nearly every battle
or
Juggernauts are balanced against the regular classes, meaning fighting two of the dominant class is a guaranteed loss
or
Juggernauts are totally non-viable in almost any circumstance


There's also the option of juggernaut being so strong that they godstomp the dominant classes too (without being one themself), but i don't see that happening.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:17:49)

Jug was around in Delta...and in this case Imbalance does mean that jugg is broken. In my opinion....



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:20:24)

@Xendran
Well good thing 1v1 and 2v2 are in fact imbalanced and I never said jug was an indicator that they were.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:23:39)

@Gearz
quote:

Well good thing 1v1 and 2v2 are in fact imbalanced and I never said jug was an indicator that they were.


quote:

So, it PROBABLY isn't jug, and just other things imbalanced.


So what did you mean by "other things" ?



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:24:49)

Stat interaction, class skills, and energy.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:29:12)

So to you....is jugg broken? if so, then how?



SKRALL213 -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:29:52)

Juggernaut is both broken and imbalance how about that? Since to me they mean about the same in this topic.
I support the idea of some power ups for jugg but not allot to make it OP.

IMO the only thing that will ever balance this game is a reset to all the classes (start over with them and remake their skills) which the ED devs do NOT have the time to ever do.
Unless they don't update for a while. IMO.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:31:17)

Its not jug that's broken, one can still jug, it is just significantly harder. It is these imbalancements that are broken, not the game type. That's like saying these imbalancements cause 1v1 and 2v2 to be imbalanced. They don't its just some certain classes and skills and the way energy works that is broken.



SKRALL213 -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:34:56)

Then why not a Juggernaut class? Only for the jugg mode? With three skills from Merc, BH and TM? That can only be used in a Jugg mode when you enter it.
Keeping your class but when in jugg you gain a new skill tree you made that is on the side for you to make when you buy the silver skull card. But as I said the devs have no time for this sort of thing.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:36:00)

@Gearz how is is that Stat interaction, class skills, and energy are the things that are broken? It could be game modes/ 5 level battle difference



Xendran -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:38:17)

quote:

Then why not a Juggernaut class? Only for the jugg mode? With three skills from Merc, BH and TM? That can only be used in a Jugg mode when you enter it.
Keeping your class but when in jugg you gain a new skill tree you made that is on the side for you to make when you buy the silver skull card. But as I said the devs have no time for this sort of thing.


This, combined with juggernaut-exclusive cores is by far the best idea, as it gives a much wider appeal to try juggernaut (a semi-new class!). It also has zero impact on 1v1 + 2v2 balance.
If the devs do not have time to make it, they are not correctly prioritising their assets. Having it as a failed battle mode is not exactly acceptable with the amount of time they spent hyping it and the amount of time they spent creating it.
In other words, they should make time for it.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:38:53)

quote:

Then why not a Juggernaut class? Only for the jugg mode? With three skills from Merc, BH and TM? That can only be used in a Jugg mode when you enter it.
Keeping your class but when in jugg you gain a new skill tree you made that is on the side for you to make when you buy the silver skull card. But as I said the devs have no time for this sort of thing.


I tried suggesting things like this for so long. But I think that no skill should be recycled from any class. There should be certain classes/weapons/cores/skills for each game mode. Each class having different skills. Why? What if one class has an skill that makes them OP and another class has the same skill but it doesn't make them OP. Both of the classes would get nerfed.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:39:04)

The fact that TMs at the moment can get into mad heal looping? The way that all players HAVE to have energy draining/gaining moves? How BHs with 17 support are raging just as fast as players with 60 support? These are all imbalanced, and can occur against players that are your level too, showing that it isn't just level difference or game-type. TMs can literally go into hundreds of rounds right now they have so much energy control and can heal so much.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:42:19)

@Gearz one more question. Im starting to understand you....What makes jugg broken? Explain unplayable...



SKRALL213 -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:44:52)

IMO The game mode it self isn't imbalance, the classes aren't either, IMO its the builds that players make that make that class OP, I have used BH since the start of omega, (Failed on TM back in Beta) and I have yet to be OP because I cannot find a good build, which is what makes these things imbalance. (Things as in, the builds that can be made by payers.)
As I said before when they raised the level cap I think that what created the problem but then again it wasn't balance in Beta either much IMO.

@Cyber Dream
I understand that but I said it only to make it a hybrid of the three classes. It can have a new set of skills but such short staff wont have time to do so with this.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:45:24)

Jugg isn't broken, but it certainly isn't as fair as it was. If the other areas were fixed that are currently imbalanced, it would be more far more balanced and easier to play.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:47:52)

@GearzI see that you're saying that jugg isn't broken but what WOULD make jugg broken?



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:50:24)

I'm saying that there are many things in the game that are imbalanced at the moment. If we got them fixed, then jug wouldn't be as hard as it is now, and it wouldn't be necessary to buff jugs.



SKRALL213 -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:54:20)

As I have said things are only imbalanced because I think (IMO) It is these builds that players make and the fact that other players copy them when they see its powerful.
As I said also, the only thing (IMO) that will make balance again is a reset to all the classes which (As I said) the devs do not have any time because of weakly updates and short staff.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:56:53)

@Gearz You're still not answering the question.

quote:

Jugg isn't broken


Ok, here you said jugg isn't broken. But what would make jugg borken.

You can't say jugg isn't broken if you can't give an example of an broken juggernaut mode



GearzHeadz -> RE: Juggernaut easy fix (1/16/2014 20:58:41)

Ah okay, gotcha. I think jug would be broken if we were having to face higher level players then we currently do



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