RE: Mercenary's with sword. (Full Version)

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DarkDevil -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 7:00:43)

yes but the point of this thread is a nerf than a buff , and mercs are not that good already.

removing the wep req will drop the effect to 40%.

then double strike and zeker will get a club requirement .

so neither will a sword or a club build be any good.



Scyze -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 7:03:00)

With a Sword, you become stronger than someone with a Club because you get more stat points. To make this suggestion come true, Mercenaries will need a new Skill or the animation will need to be completely changed; this can be easy or it can be difficult, but I don't think it needs to happen right now.

If you go with a Sword build, it's your choice, expect to have limitations.



coolboyelazizy -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 12:29:32)

quote:

removing the wep req will drop the
effect to 40%.


So u saying that the gain would be only about 25% conversation ?
I gues ls that would be over nerf since it's the only gaining skill for mers.

quote:

then double strike and zeker will get a
club requirement .


No I guess one of those would be required a club with surgical not both.

quote:

To make this
suggestion come true, Mercenaries
will need a new Skill


That would be a good skill for borh club and sword and the original static for club only like TM's.

quote:

this can be easy or it can be difficult,
but I don't think it needs to happen
right now.


I think anything wouod improve balance should happen now.

quote:

If you go with a Sword build, it's your
choice, expect to have limitations.


So merc are just banned from using a sword.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 12:39:54)

They can use a sword if they want. They just want be able to use their energy drain/gain move. Merc classes are still the only class able to use its special without a class weapon. And they already have the least amount of class specific skills.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 12:41:55)

^ Hence why I've suggested this, which would fix it, and give a boost to one of Mercs' moves (and maybe Ultimate too). :3



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 12:49:25)

Yes, about your suggestion Trans, why would a club be required for surgical strike? And why would it need a damage boost to match supercharge if it did? It is already on the same damage level as supercharge, but scales 1 tech point faster. And why would berserker need to deal 33% damage on block? Cheap shot is blockable, but it doesn't receive a damage boost. The static smash I can understand though.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 12:59:40)

Because skills that require a specific weapon are often stronger. Overload vs. Stun Grenade is one example. Why would Surgical Strike require a Club? Because every other Ultimate does, and the power boost would compensate for it - unless it doesn't already need one. Likewise with Zerker - I'm "dumping" Club requirement on it, and instead of increasing the damage boost, I've suggested altering how it works on blocks.

I don't see how CheapShot doesn't get any damage boost. Compare it to Double Strike, or Bludgeon. Look at the effect and EP cost. CheapShot isn't locked to Physical (unlike Bludgeon) and requires Claws (unlike Double Strike), as well as having two different effects (defense ignore + fixed Critical chance) and low EP cost (compared to Bludgeon and Double Strike).

Not mentioning how TLMs have only one move which requires you to use a Club, which is Atom Smasher, and Mercs have only 2 skills & one of them is EP drain/return, being the only one to require a class-specific weapon (TMs have Battery Backup, mind you). All the other classes have 3 skills which require a class-specific weapon, and TMs even have 4 skills.

I'd give you some credibility for providing some good examples, but they've only proved my point right, instead of yours - which is power boost to skills which require class-specific weapons. :)



coolboyelazizy -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:00:06)

quote:

And they already
have the least amount of class specific skills.


U didn't see TLM right ?

quote:

Merc
classes are still the only class able to use its
special without a class weapon.


U didn't read the whole thread, did u ?

Me and trans suggested that surgical should require a club and that would balance tlm a bit since they have just one skill require a club.


EDIT: Thanks trans for clearing this out. [:D]



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:10:12)

@Coolboyelazizy
I did read all of the posts. TLM has 1 weapon specific skill, merc has 2. And I still don't see why surgical strike would need a weapon requirement? It just doesn't make sense, why would you need a mallet to press a button? Honestly, I think frenzy should be a club still, especially now that it is a 2 in one skill like other weapon specific skills (armor ignore and health regain). Double strike should be, since it is the only tier one skill with no weapon requirement.

@Trans
Still, why would other weapon requiring skill not get a damage boost while blocked like your idea for zerker would? Even if blocked, it would still deal higher damage than a regular block because of its % increase damage wise. And while bludgeon is locked to physical, most mages probably appreciate that since the fact their other skills are mainly energy.



DarkDevil -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:19:37)

quote:

So u saying that the gain would be only about 25% conversation ?
I gues ls that would be over nerf since it's the only gaining skill for mers.

quote:

U didn't see BH right ?

@coolboyelazizy i edited the part to match.



coolboyelazizy -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:24:15)

@DarkDevil

Just gonna say one thing

COMPARE THE SKILLS PRICES .

EDIT: Thanks trans for clearing out again. [:)]



Ranloth -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:27:54)

quote:

why would other weapon requiring skill not get a damage boost while blocked like your idea for zerker would?

Because it's a different suggestion. Club requirement would give it a boost in power, which is the % damage increase. Instead, I am suggesting no increase in its damage but improving how Zerker works on blocks. It's not a difficult concept to understand. :| If you increase the damage (%'s), then block would end up dealing more damage*, but at the same time, it could end up being overpowered - especially after recent EP cost reduction.

In the same way, using your logic, why do Static Smash and Static Grenade work in the same way, but the Grenade ends up being weaker - return wise? Because it's unblockable and has no weapon requirement. The same mechanism but different effect.

* Let's assume 50% now, and 60% after the buff: 50% * 15% = 7.5% damage & 50% * 33% = 16.5% damage & 60% * 15% = 9% damage. In other words, the damage dealt on block is increased (for 60%) but if not blocked, the move can become abuseable. Hence why I'm suggesting just buffing the block, and keep damage the same. Unique concept.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:36:05)

But comparing berserker to massacre, massacre is a class specific weapon, although a final and unblockable, berserker is already a very good skill. Giving it a lower energy cost for it being a blockable and weapon requiring skill would already make it powerful. Also perhaps removing the turn warm-up.



Scyze -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:39:54)

quote:

Giving it a lower energy cost for it being a blockable and weapon requiring skill would already make it powerful.
Making it require a Club will make it weaker, the damage done is less compared to a Sword...



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:45:09)

I meant the damage % increase is already powerful on it.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:48:40)

Hence why I'm suggesting increasing the damage it deals when blocked, otherwise there is no damage increase. Only if your opponent blocks it, then it deals 33% of the damage instead of 15%. Increasing its damage would be too much, as I've said above, hence why I believe this would be less overpowered. -.-



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 13:56:58)

Okay, but say a regular strike deals 500 damage. If that got blocked, it would deal 75 damage, going by your 15%. With an 80% increase of damage (max berserker) that would deal 900 damage. If that got blocked, it would deal 135 damage, going by your 15%. So I'm failing to see why it would need that 33% damage while blocked.



Scyze -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:15:45)

Exactly why did you go with a massive number? Why don't you stick with a number which is more common?



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:18:55)

I don't see why it would of made a difference.



coolboyelazizy -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:27:06)

quote:

I don't see why it would of made a difference.


Cuz I've never sow any player no matter how much STR they have does that dmg 500 in a regular strike !!!!!!!



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:29:10)

Alright, I'll give a new one then. Deals 250, blocked deals 37.5 Deals 450 (max berserker) blocked deals 67.5. Its just the same difference as my other example. Dealing less damage is the risk of using a blockable attack.



Scyze -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:33:09)

Let's go with a damage of 215, it's nearly the amount of damage I get hit by Strength builds.
Berzerker
215*1.80= 387 without getting blocked.
387*0.15= 58.05
Rounded down= 58 damage when blocked.

Normal strike
215*0.15= 32.25
Rounded down= 32 damage when blocked.

>.>
I have yet to see someone hit 500 with a normal strike in a legitimate battle.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:36:16)

I have, but that's because of using blood commander with maxed berserker on a smoked and omega'd enemy. I just used bigger numbers because its easier for most people to read, the difference number wise was the same as the lower number examples.



Scyze -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:37:59)

But when you use a bigger number, the end result will be bigger. Since you used buffs and nerfs to reach that damage, I don't think that every person will hit 500 damage every time.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Mercenary's with sword. (1/19/2014 14:41:03)

Yes, but if you look at the difference between the blocks on both the high strike and regular strikes, its the same difference. It was just an example to allow people to tell the difference.



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