RE: assimilation (Full Version)

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DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:17:08)

i guess my suggestion for assim base nerf was done , it was to nerf casters and it did.

anyway if the damage was removed it will get a magnitude buff so we will have a class with battery and static smash.

assim is fine the way it is , the problem is with other skills currently.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:20:42)

@ Ambien

Actually in recent threads I have been seeing people asking for this kind of buff for all the other skills that drain/gain or just drain because Assimilation and energy parasite does these.

quote:

assimilation should of never been able to do phy damg with its manna stealing skill.


Energy parasite can also do this meaning give damage while draining and gaining energy as well yet I don't see you complaining about this move. What is the real issue here?



Calogero -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:23:41)

If not removing/nerving Assimilate why not change it in the way sort of like Parasite
Example:
Drain 50 - Gain 75
Just random numbers but thing is that the gain is 25% higher than the drain.
Prevents losing +200 energy at once but still = a reliable gain even though they already have Battery



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:28:04)

because the skill's main purpose is the drain while parasite's main purpose is the regain.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:37:38)

all l am saying for the last time l am fine with assimitation stealing engy np with that. but l have a problem with assimitation doing 2 types of damg the phy damg. when in a battle when a mage needs engy he has battery back up which gives engy pts or manna. and he or she can use assimilation which can steal engy vs the amount of str. put in the skill, that is fine. but my problem is doing phy damg, to like example stealing 250 pts of engy no prblem with that, here is the problem also dealing 225 pts of phy damg. the skill was designed to take engy not dealing a large amount of phy damg from the prime weapon which is use for the attack which steals engy.

then if they want to do that make it cost to use it as a phy attack because right now this attack for engy and phy damg is free. and the rest of attacks like that cost manna to use. with that kind of return. it is nice to get 2 attacks which can end the game fast for free. 220 pts of engy free and by the way l can also do 240 pts of phy damg to for free to. this is the problem.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:46:22)

@ Ambien

The skill originally was given damage and rage gain to compensate it's drain and gain being so much weaker then the other drainers and gainers. If this skill was truly designed for this purpose then it would have had a much stronger energy drain/gain and not the weak one it originally started with.

Plus even if they did want you are ranting about it still doesn't change the following.

1 Energy parasite will still be able to do what you think shouldn't exist in the game (meaning the skill can give damage as well as drain energy and give it back to the oppoent)
2 Stop caster TM from using this skill for a second energy source.

All this would change is that Strength TM wouldn't have a way to drain energy and deal damage at the same time since for them it is still a good source of Damage where as casters without strength wouldn't care since they use it more for the energy drainer/gainer if anything.

In other words a band aid fix to stop one build but still leaving the skill abusable for any other non strength based build.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:55:36)

for real mother really . so it is ok for a mage to hit you for 240 manna drain which is fine for me but then btw here comes a phy attack to which will do 255 pts of damg and their is nothing to about since the engy attack is unblockable so damg of the phy follows right behind the attack. why not put a manna cost on assimilation. and beside the deve fixed the problem for str. mages called blood mages read the old ds notes by titain once.

to give mages the battling change become a blood mage read them once. titian posted them

l can see in this post people will never understand this post. stop the assimilation phy damg abuse.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:04:34)

@ Ambien

You seem to be missing another point I am bringing up. Assimilation has many people complaining about it for various reasons. While your complaint maybe the damage it gives, others like Conqrr have a problem with the fact that TM has two ways of getting back energy.

Your issue is more focused on strength TM's since they are the one's using this the most to deal damage along with mana drain which in turn would cripple them the most if you did remove the damage and rage gain.

However other builds as I pointed out that use this move for the energy gain wouldn't lose an eyelash to this change which was why I called your idea to buff the drain/gain in exchange for taking away the damage a band aid fix to stop strength TM but at the same time doesn't fix the problem.

Here is an idea how about actually balancing the move for all instead of focusing on one problem with the move?



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:17:09)

what would u say if the static grenada did phy damg to plus it engy drain u would say well that has to be changed. cut the assimilation by 4.5 % which also would go onto the phy damg.

listen l could care less how much engy they steal from the skill just reduce the phy damg that is with the attack. the phy attack does the damg not the engy attack. engy attack does not take away your life pts does it.



Xamurai -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:19:20)

Something you all need to understand. Assimilation IS!! Op. The fact that it can be used multiple times, Deals 85% damage < should be like 40% MAX! Its ridiculous. You can steal a players heal. Whilst using rage and hitting 300 AND gaining energy? Nty. It needs a nerf badly. I agree that it should do only steal and no damage. BUT! It should be 0 MP cost. Scale with strength. and NOT RETURN MP! Thats what battery backup is for. ANOTHER blatantly OP'd tm skill. Essentially. You can gain more Mp then any other class. 3x faster. THAT is the Definition of OP.




:)
Now. This needs to be carefully considered. Battery backup. Should be the ONLY way for a mage to gain MP. And seems all other classes have a way to steal MP. My assimilation doing NO Mp regen and 0 cost mp steal is good. NO other class has to ways to regen MP. BM steals and gains Mp at the same time which is fair. Seems it only has one energy trading skill. CH has an Mp gain and steal skill separately. BH has only 1 MP trading skill so AGAIN its fair. Tlm Has 1 MP steal and one MP gain. It should be that way with TM aswell. Merc has an MP Steal/Regen skill in one move. And AGAIN. Its fair cuz they only have ONE mp trading skill.
I agree with the overall concept. But it needs to be nerfed harder then originally suggested by SyFy.


Unless you actually PLAY tm. You dont know how OP it actually is. I can easily beat any other class 99.9% of the time. Shows how blatantly OP TM is.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:24:37)

ty for your post very much Xamurai

always the syfy[:)]



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:28:06)

What does Static Grenade have to do with Assimilation? You can compare the two, yes, but not all moves have to be the same. Remove the damage, and they'll likely buff the drain to compensate. and Casters will see no difference, but Strength builds will. Buff the drain (and it'll indirectly buff return) and players will request a nerf to the drain values. Lower the damage, and Strength builds will get affected but Casters will see no difference.

Identify the issue, find the solution. People have an issue with the skill as a whole now, since some of you want nerf to drain/return, some want damage removed, and some want return removed. That's why balancing doesn't work - look at Omega and players' suggestions which have messed up some skills already.

So, who's the problem - Strength builds or Casters? If both, find a solution that nerfs it for both and not just on & if one of them, just go for one of the options. What is the problem - drain, return or damage?

Stop going back and forth, about how other skills deal damage and how others don't. Not every skill has to be the same, and don't use other skills as an excuse to alter another one - that's not variety, which players seem to ask for. Assimilation deals damage and drains less than it would if it didn't deal any damage. Removing damage would buff Casters, because 30 damage for Casters is not important. Strength builds would get hit badly by it instead.

Not each class have to have to have only one 1 EP draining and return skill, whether separate or together. Likewise with weapon requirements on skills; each class has different amounts than standard 3 skills (TMs have 4, TLMs have 1, Mercs have 2 and rest have 3).

You don't have to play as a said class to know whether something is overpowered or not... No one in this thread has said the skill doesn't need a nerf, apart from asking for a justification and not being purely ridden on opinions. Asking someone to justify isnt anything big to ask for - constructive feedback after all, not making joke out of balance and suggest banal nerfs which have been implemented in the past and skewed balance. Namely PA + SC combo, begging for TLM nerf which has removed 3 different skills and made TLMs underpowered in Delta, and plenty more.



coolboyelazizy -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:29:19)

Ok how about replacing energy parasite woth assi.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:31:56)

@ Xamurai

I saw the build you used in game, and guess what? Your build is the same build almost every TM uses which is that strength TM build. Of course Assimilation would be powerful with a strength build for damage and energy drain purposes since it scales with strength.

While I am not saying the skill is strong, it is strongest just for guess what? Strength TM. Caster TM use it for the energy drain with the min damage and rage gain as a bonus. It is strength TM which is the current flavor of the week build that is using it for all of the above.

Also Battery backup is also shared by TLM as well and personally I think they should change the way battery back up works for TM while leaving it the same for TLM.

@ Ambien

As I pointed out many times Assimilation was given damage and rage gain to compensate for it falling behind as a drainer/gainer when it first came out! what part of that don't you get? Heck even now as Trans and myself pointed out it still is weaker than all the others in terms of draining and and gaining (minus Energy parasite) Because Both Static smash and Static grenade can give their class more energy back from their moves in comparison to assimilation, and for energy destroyers Atom smasher and EMP destroy far more energy at lower levels than Assimilation can do at max.

So if those moves did get damage added to them the amount they drained/gained would need to go down to compensate for this since you are adding the effect of damage and rage gain.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:46:05)

it the game
theirs 3 -1 tms build ruling and running around ed. lets see mages have some great skills compared to the rest of the classes lets get real here. look at the boards you see tms ruling the game. now str. mages right now have the best way in ed . battery backup well it took reroute l quess we have to live with it. l am fine with it.
let me put it to you this way. if you could have skill that steals mass amounts of manna and does mass amounts of damg and quess what the attack was the same skill would you not over use it. and wow it cost 0 to use it for 2 types of damg for the same skill and they work at the same time.

if assimilation was not doing 2 types of damg for 1 attack and cost 0 their would not be a over run of tms. you can count on that. it is a great free attack ( my means no manna cost ) why not play a tm l get a great attack. listen players who play them it is fine l do not get mad at them. it is that skill that gives me a problem. in time l am sure they can fix it. so people saying l do not what l am talking about ok your voice you can say what you want l have no problem with it.

like posted in this post play a tm once and see how oped the skill is it was stated by a very good player. and a friend of mine .

my thoughts on this alwats the syfy



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:50:31)

ok i will only write this once because i don't like arguing for no use.

why is str tms as you claim overused ?

1. hatchling rush core
2. str is currently superior to other stats
3. bludegon is overpowered having 2.1 effeciency
4. battery has no requirement and is just a "press to gain 370 energy"
5. assimmilation

you have 5 reasons and assimilation is the least of them.
so the fact of the unbalance of str tms doesn't work on assimilation.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 15:57:32)

ALL l said if people would read l said the phy damg from assimiation is oped that is what l said not to take assimilation away never. if you would read it right l said again, the phy part of the attack from assimilation is a little oped. read and then post then post your point on the oped part which is the phy damg that is what l am talking about.

always the syfy



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 16:01:50)

@ Ambien

Everyone who has posted gets what you are saying. However, everyone here just about has also brought up other problems with the skill that your solution wouldn't solve, and as to why the move is the way it is in the first place as well as why it is still the way it is.



lionblades -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 17:52:12)

The problem with assimilation is the DRAIN and ENERGY GAIN not the damage.




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