Agility and str builds (Full Version)

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CN2025 -> Agility and str builds (2/13/2014 3:15:20)

the staff said that agility was a band aid fix and because of this they removed it. and now i keep seeing str builds running free with out any sort of limitations,please think up of a compensation instead of letting str builds run wild especialy with the current OP core hatlching rush. please put agility back or think of some better fix .


please refrain from posting about telling me how i suggest to solve this problem because this is exactly why i asked the Devs to think up a solution since i cant think of one my self :#



Ranloth -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/13/2014 3:42:15)

It's your thread, and you're supposed to suggest something - not ask others to do the job for you. Agility won't come back, they've made it clear upon its removal - bandaid fixes waste time and don't fix it either. There's something called buffing/nerfing the stat progression - whether it's buffing defense or nerfing offense.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/13/2014 20:57:25)

how about a return of agility ( I did not see it as a band-aid fix. I saw it as a fix that had some serious flaws but could definitely work), but make it so that it increases the % of damage you take from attacks (like the opposite of shadow arts, except the magnitude will generally be higher). This will maintain the fun behind high-HP tank builds with lower offensives, but punish the builds that abuse the best of diminishing returns in dex and tech before stacking into HP which has no diminishing returns.

Or make HP have diminishing returns as an alternate suggestion.



Mother1 -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/13/2014 21:16:13)

@ Exploding penguin

It was basically punishing players for using high HP builds by giving them less defenses, which sounds no different from your idea TBH. With the old agility the more health you had after a point the harder your opponent could hit you.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 0:04:34)

^My idea is different in that %s mean pairing high HP will still cause you to be hit for more, but far less than if you were using high HP with low defenses.

Also it may have seemed useless to invest in HP after a certain point back then since the defense/resistance penalty increased quickly from -2 to -4 and so on, but there was a use to it: rage. You gain more rage the more damage you take, and your opponent gains less rage the less tanky you are. Some people back then who made good high HP builds that even went to the -8 on agility truly utilized this strategy to make rage spammable while barely giving any to their opponent.



CN2025 -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 0:30:34)

@ trans bandaid fixes dont waste time its supposed to be used as a stalling technique to think of something better in which the devs didn't think it was nessesary and just removed agility..



Remorse -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 10:55:36)

I blame the OP/broken cores, and broken free costing drains and regains, not the removal of agility.



Ranloth -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 10:58:26)

quote:

bandaid fixes dont waste time

Why bother with temporary fix, if it'll break soon enough? Yes, it's a waste of time because you can use that time on a permanent fix. Instead, you're spending time on temporary and then permanent fix. Rabble likes working on permanent ones, even if they take more time.

And Agility was a failed bandaid - Devs themselves have admitted to this, hence the removal. Nerf to HP has rendered Agility useless. Had HP (and EP) been the same, then Agility would've stayed, but at the same time, defense would end up being underpowered (Rabble covered it before too).



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 21:58:02)

quote:

Devs themselves have admitted to this


The devs are not perfect people, not even in their own game. Just because they admit something about their game does not mean that it's entirely true.



Ranloth -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/14/2014 22:05:55)

You've misunderstood. Players have said before that Agility was a poor fix to high HP builds, and upon its removal, they've said it was a poor solution from them which didn't work as it should and was removed.

Nothing about them being perfect or anything along these lines.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Agility and str builds (2/15/2014 12:12:55)

quote:

Players have said before that Agility was a poor fix to high HP builds,


Really funny thing is that the playerbase on the forums consists largely of people who complain that the overused builds aren't working for them, or anyone who is incapable of using an overused build complains about their class being underpowered. Just because 90% of the players in 1v1 all using high-HP BH massacre or 140 HP heal loop TM decided that agility was bad (for obvious reasons; it impaired their use of the build to a degree), does not mean that it was the right solution.



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