More Leniant/Better (Full Version)

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Valosity -> More Leniant/Better (2/17/2014 20:41:14)

Hi,
So, i wasnt completely certain as to where i should post this, and this forum seemed the most reasonable to me.
But, i find that this forum as a whole, particularly the AQWorlds section (Only because that is where i frequent, it could be completely untrue or completely true about other sections, although i get the feeling the forum is this way overall), is very organized, or restricted. Too much so, in fact.
Guides are locked simply because a staff member does not see how the guide can be useful, when there has hardly been any work on it yet. Who is the staff member to say that the particular guide will not be useful, and even if it wasn't, why lock it? There's a reason theres a pending guide section, its for development, let players finish before you stop them. Sure, i think it would be a good idea to tell them that the guide probably won't get approved, but maybe they have plans for it that would change that. It's just way too controlling, for years i have found the Battleon Forums very restricting, not allowing so many things that there really isnt a good reason for.
In the General Discussion & Q&A, you cant simply ask, what is the best ____? For example, i posted a short time ago a thread that asked "What was your most enjoyable quest/thing you got" or something like that. Now, it wasnt a thread to simply ask what it is, and have people share their ideas, but a thread in which i was wondering what people enjoyed, as suggestions for me to do, for enjoyment. Shut down immediately, as theres the Best/Worst/Favorite ect. thread for that stuff, yet how am i supposed to get an answer out of there? Yea, i asked for things that COULD fit into that catagorey, yet as i was asking about them i believe they did not. So, i never got an answer to that, because everything is grouped up into a couple different topics, where they are so broad it makes it very troublesome to find something particular.

Ever since ive been on forums for other things, i have noticed that as long as a topic doesnt fit perfectly into another, like one person say nearly the same exact thing as another, they are allowed, and it is far more enjoyable and informative that way. People are allowed to discuss things more freely, but also more specific to a particular topic. Here, that doesnt seem to be allowed.

Now, i know that this would seem as if im venting from things occuring to me, yet i'm not. I have thought this out for a while, looked through the forums, and would like to discuss this matter. I don't see a topic like this being against the rules, but again, i believe it fits here in this forum. If not, please direct me to the correct location. In my opinion, if topics where more specific more people would engage in each discussion, and it would be overall more informative to all.

Please, if you disagree with this in any way, tell why you do so. The reasons i have above for this arn't the only ones, theres countless encounters. I just do not see reason behind all this, but please, if you believe im in the wrong or that i am not, i would like to discuss this with you. If you need clarification, or believe this doesnt matter, i can explain to you.

Thank you for your time.




Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/17/2014 22:45:10)

I'd actually have to disagree with you. Here's why:

1: Guides are often shut down before they are finished not because of their content; but because of their purpose. Some guides, no matter how detailed they are, are simply useless. They may be duplicates, or just guides for things that are 'common knowledge' in game. Thus, they are shut down.

2: For the more used forums, such as the AQW section, which actually is the most crowded forum if I'm not mistaken, there are stricter limits because of the larger amount of users. More users will always mean more possible trolls, flamers, or people who just don't even bother reading the rules. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all of the people are trolls, flamers, rule ignorers, etc. Simply that if you have a 'bigger jar of honey' so to speak, the more 'bugs will come'.

3: As I said before; things that could be categorized in an already existing thread, such as the one you referred to creating a while back, will only end up taking space up. If you have 3 or 4 threads that could be combined into 1, why not just do that? True, you may not get as many 'personal' answers, but generally they amount to the same thing.

In reference to other forums out there that are lenient, often times they are too lenient. And I say it's better to be safe than sorry, especially for a game company that is intended for a younger audience.




Technomancer -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/18/2014 7:59:54)

I can't really comment on other sections, but I can sorta chip in on the subject of guides (having been an AQW Guides AK for a couple years).

An initial look at a guide is usually enough to determine its usefulness. Mostly because of their main topic.

There's roughly two types of guides being put out, ''duplicate'' and ''new''. Duplicates are usually spotted by looking at the title and basic info already provided in that first version. I'll take your ''starting out - new players'' guide as an example. The reason it's taken down is not because it doesn't have a place. It's because there's already a guide filling that spot. We don't need more of the same. So instead of spending time nurturing a new guide, people are directed to the existing ones and instead asked if they maybe have suggestions for those (or if they feel like those are too outdated, file a request for taking over the previous one). To help further improve the one already there instead of having multiple ones which are more or less the same. New guides, on the other hand, have (mostly) content that does not fit in any existing guides. These are handled with more discussion. ''Is this topic in need of a guide?'', ''Would people benefit from having a guide explaining <topic>?'', ... . If it isn't deemed useful, the guide will be locked as well. They don't go lightly over locking guides.

As for the ''locking guides early''. This is also to prevent needless effort. They could leave all guides open indefinitely until they are finished. But that means a writer will continue to pool their efforts into making their guide better. Even when the main topic already been deemed as ''not needed'' which means there's really little room for the fully finished guide to suddenly become useful. It's often best to stop them early in those cases.

Also note that the Guides AKs (and, honestly, pretty much the entire forum staff by extension) are open to dialogue. If you feel there was not enough info given, you feel there may be more merit to your guide, ... drop them a PM where you ask for some more info, some explanation behind the thought process involved, a PM were you bring up some good arguments to defend your guide, ... . They don't bite. :P




Valosity -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/18/2014 14:06:53)

To reply to Chaosweaver Amon:

1:
I do see why that is, and i agree with that some guides purpose isnt ever going to be useful. But, why not tell the guide owner that this is the case, instead of just not letting them make the guide at all? Who knows what they have planned for it, it may seem as if the guide is going in one direction, when after a good amount of work is done the guide creates a purpose for itself. It seems to me as if it would be best to let the owner know the guide as it looks to be turning out to be that it does not have a good purpose, but not to stop them. Because, the thing is, you simply dont know what direction they are going in with the guide.

2:
I do completely agree with your statement, as with the amount of people in the AQW forum create the potential for more rule-breaking and such, yet some things are reasonable, and other are not. Such as the duplicate threads being deleted or grouped together, but threads that have more of a purpose, a more specific purpose than the grouped together threads, should be allowed. I do not think just because a thread could fit into a grouped thread means that the thread should be locked, but ones that can fit directly into that grouped thread, and lack another purpose or point the grouped thread does not, it should be allowed. It really should depend on each individual case, not just the fact that they could be merged, but the fact that is this new thread something that is worth keeping, even if it somewhat relates to another.

3:
This is where i most certainly disagree with you. If you have 3 or 4 threads that could be combined into one, it depends for each individual case. If these topics where nearly the exact same thing, yes, they should be combined into one. If these topics each feature something significant the others do not, such as in my case i was not looking for people to say and just list the best/worst/favorite ect, as it is in that thread, but i had a couple different things, i think it was questlines, or items that you unlocked that i was specifically asking about, and i was asking about them simply for me to do, not like in where the other thread its all just whatever you best/favorite thing is or was. And, in this case, they would have amounted to very different things, not generally amounting to the same things. Mine would have given me answers and things to do and try out, while i have a lesser to no things to do by looking in the other thread, and even if i could find something, it would be a extreme increase in the challenge of it.

To reply to Technomancer:
I do agree with how guides are disregarded due to them being very much alike, as duplicates, and i do see why you would lock them based off of very little information at their start, but do not agree with it. Instead, it should be told to the guide owner that it is a duplicate, and that the way it looks to be turning out it will be a duplicate. But, as i said before, it may not, no matter how much you think it will turn out to be a duplicate or un-useful, it still can turn out very usefully. And, i see that this may arise the answer of "But its almost certainly not going to", yet what is it hurting the forums? It's in the pending guides section, it will effect things on a minuscule level.
And, in my guides case, I completely understood that it was very easily identified as a duplicate. When i received a message about it being locked, i understood why because of the other guide already covering all my guide would have contained. The only reason i created the guide was because i was looking for guides in the lower section, not the pinned section where the How To Play guide was located, and skimmed over it. In my case, my guide would have been a guide where an AK could have posted saying that there is the How To Play guide that mine is a duplicate of, and thats the direction i had intended for the guide, it would have included nearly everything being considered a duplicate, yet i could have altered it to make it a "new" guide that has a useful purpose, if i had a different direction intended for it.
As for the whole needless effort thing, this can be remedied by posting that the guide will likely be considered a duplicate, and if the person decides to put in the effort and had a plan to go in a direction that would not be considered a duplicate, and it would have had a purpose. Not every guide can be altered to be in some ways similar but enough different, nearly any guide can be changed to have a purpose on the same subject, relevant enough it doesnt need to just be added on to a current one.


I'm not saying any of this just due to my cases, those are simply examples of it. I am not trying to get them reversed, or to prove anything about them, they are only partially relevant to what i meant for this thread to explain, and only relevant as examples.
And, this is not at all majorly about guides, that is simply one of the multiple things that could be altered for the better. This thread is meant to be about how if the Battleon Forums, particularly AQW Forums, featured a less restricted structure.






Harris8300 -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/25/2014 3:31:16)

Sometimes it can be useful, but you don't give the useful information. I do agree with you, I say they want a good detailed guide but the tutorial is only a mouse only on 3 screens on AQW, so it can't be that useless. Duplicates can be a good thing. The original could be locked and that's better.




Skurge -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/25/2014 7:55:18)

If you're going to discuss whether or not Valosity's guide should've or shouldn't have been removed, you may take that to the AQW Guides ArchKnights (via PM).

I'm okay with this suggestion being open, but I'm going to ask that you refrain from merging personal issues into what may seem like a suggestion for the forums. This post has already taken a wrong turn from the beginning so be careful with what you post next.

~Skurge,
ArchKnight Forum Resources




Melissa4Bella -> RE: More Leniant/Better (2/25/2014 19:20:16)

I am locking this thread for several reasons, some of which are:

1.) The thread has been correctly answered more than once
2.) Repeating the same things over and over again does not add weight to persuasion


This thread was given chances, none of which were properly taken even after direction was given publicly and through the PM system. Thread locked!




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