RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/25/2014 11:31:50)

quote:

Balance is to be achieved on skills that belong to a specific class, not on shared skills.

This goes against what you've just said. One, that the skill is meant to be balanced for a specific class, but a nerf makes it weak for BMs and balanced for TMs. Funny contradiction. :] Not trying to start an argument, of course. *contradictions are quite common for everyone xD*

Although, I do like your solution actually - with EP cost swapping. In fact, it's a nice buff to PB, which may've been overshot a little - hence the fad with Dex TMs lately, as opposed to standard Casters. Perhaps, it wouldn't be too much of a nerf - for BMs -, at least until they remove the shared skills from ED.
Any buff to Grenades is welcome, as long as Plasma and Stun Grenades are both on par. (currently, Plasma is weaker + more expensive, than Stun)

Btw, it's nice to see new faces around on here. ^^



Amkatar -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/25/2014 11:46:20)

I was talking about two kinds of balance, balance between classes (so that no class overshadows another one) and balance between skills (to promote diversity, and not seeing 95% of tech mages using the same build); I know I have not made myself very clear :P

And yes, I was talking about stun grenade, but of course the same applies to plasma grenade.

And nice to meet you too :)



lampur1 -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 12:09:05)

heres a challange ( make a new acc not a tm. bh or maerc get to lvl 7 and try to keeb your win rate above 60% IMPOSSIBLE why? well lets say this TM cankill you in 2 turns.
i dont thinkanything should be donewith dex builds but at low lvls 5-20 it really needs a nerf cuz those are the most op lvls



Ranloth -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 13:05:16)

That's another issue - nerfing one affects the other, level wise that is. I'll still go for Amkatar's solution, which may fix it at lower level too - higher EP cost.

Also, I do know what you're talking about. My L28 TM was made merely weeks before the passives change, and this was an issue even before the passives were removed. TMs were always powerful up until around L10.



s0u1ja b0y -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 20:37:19)

Yeh but at least with reroute it wasnt so OP. Battery backup really is a super ultra mega OP skill especially for tanks.



Ranloth -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 21:10:37)

Battery Backup should get changed as a whole. Making it regenerate % of your total Energy would work better - if you want more Energy, you can invest in it. Seeing as it also scales with level, you'd always get a few more EP back with each level up.

50% return at L10 would be pretty balanced. What would it be, around 320 EP perhaps? I think max Battery gives around 340-350 now, at L40. Rest assured, it'd be easier to balance it with %'s. Introducing level scaled hard-cap would stop abuse too - just like Energy Parasite has the 1,500 EP limit.
And perhaps low Support requirement at most. I don't mean 42 Support at L10, but capping at around 32-35 Support. Shouldn't hinder anyone, but just keep Casters at bay.



Mother1 -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 21:15:41)

@ trans

what about TLM who share this move? Wouldn't that hurt them more than help them since it is TM that is problem with this not TLM?



Ranloth -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 21:19:20)

I see the skill being meh as a whole, regardless of the class. I'm just throwing around the concept, not aiming it to be a nerf to a specific class.



Xendran -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/26/2014 21:23:12)

That version of battery backup that leaves current TMs just as OP and my TM even more OP than it already is, and mine is already more OP than the FOTM mage build.

EDIT: My builds battery backup would get buffed from 290ish to 315 with your suggested change, which is pretty bad considering my build is already stronger than the FOTM build. (Based on current numbers it would start at 23% and scale 3% per level to 50, putting my level 8 at 44% of 715 energy)

And that's assuming you scale it off of the battery backup used by a level 1 for the first level of the skill. I ignored the +10 energy bonuses you get every couple of levels. If i had scaled the percentages based on those it would be even stronger because the scaling would be tighter.
If we took the +10 bonuses into account, you'd be starting it at 35% and scaling 1.6% per level at level 40.

You also may not have experienced the EXTREMELY powerful max supercharge build that you can create right now. This would become FOTM in a heartbeat with your battery backup because of how much max energy it has, and how much benefit the build would get from regenerating nearly 500 energy with every backup.
This is why i tell people balance is hard. Ideas that sound solid on paper have consequences that some people don't expect, because some builds that are very powerful and would be buffed excessively by this aren't used because they are difficult to use properly.

This is EXACTLY how we get the devs making changes that break other builds when they try to fix one.


quote:

Introducing level scaled hard-cap would stop abuse too


Completely arbitrary change that is indicative of a broken system. If the skill is balanced you dont NEED to have hard caps like this.
Energy Parasite is the way it is ONLY because of how much more energy bosses have than players, and how powerful parasite is against them. You will never hit the hard cap against a player.



lampur1 -> RE: Something had to be done with dex builds !! (2/27/2014 0:36:15)

The only reason i talk about low lvl balance is that in worried tha
t new players will leave one way is to make energy cost higer or make the damage lower at low lvls



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