RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Xanaomin -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 20:54:32)

Considering that the magic combo button does 150-160% damage and the bow does 200% damage... I don't see how they're underpowered.



Deviance -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 21:43:18)

I like it a lot ^^ It looks fantastic too, tho I do wish that we can see the electricity type move more often. As far as I can see, its only used once, Ill keep playing with it however



Rorshach -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 22:32:01)

Some thoughts after using for 15 minutes (I don't have a lot of spare time like this class has).

1) A rather different class compared to DF's conventional ones. As much as I'd like to see more of these types of classes using this type of combo for their skill set, the problem lies that there is a NEED for a combo in order to access these different skill sets.

Meaning to say, if we're to compare ChronoZ to a class like Ascendent, ChronoZ has to wait for 2 or 3 turns before being able to use - for example - a 'Blind' skill. Which dampens its utilization quite a lot, because all of its skills need that many turns to wait, and it accumulates to a lot at the end.

Though however, these combo-attacks deal higher damage, I'm not sure if that makes it more balance when its losing the ability to use the different skill sets earlier on.

2) Cooldowns are extremely long for a lot of the skills. Even the defensive shield, which I had hoped to only have a 3-turn or 2-turn standard CD, it went to a whooping 9. I don't understand the reason behind this? Unless ChronoZ is meant to be an all-out glass-cannon?

Which further makes my point in (1), where skills then take a longer time to be available.

3) Like SH class, using these types of classes require new players to the class, a list of possible combos. Though it makes it interesting to try out how the combos work, what they do, etc. what happens though later on? Yes, I would agree that a Pedia entry about it should be put up soon.

4) So far I've seen that combo-required-classes are extremely offensive. Not that it is bad, but this it limits these class-types to being 'glass-cannons' with "not much" variety. Yes, true that there is a lot of skills more available to these classes than normal conventional ones, it however, is as I've already mentioned - restricted by a combo-requirement. And most would just probably stick to their guns of out-damaging the opponent than trying to think of an extremely good step-by-step method of defeating bosses.

Though it is interesting in being challenging, I wonder how far that could go...



eatfist -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 22:43:32)

They need to all be equally strong as the sword combo to be any good



DeathHound -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 23:13:20)

The class is good. May be a clone, but then your differences lie in future updates, and sheer look. I think Chrono ( and the void items) go hand in hand. Of course, i think it's unique that you have to use a combo to unlock another set of skills. Trying not to piggy-back on other people's complaints, but I don't like the way it moves when it is being attacked. Too spazzy for my taste. Lag is seen at points, nothing special..



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 23:13:59)

quote:


1)
Meaning to say, if we're to compare ChronoZ to a class like Ascendent, ChronoZ has to wait for 2 or 3 turns before being able to use - for example - a 'Blind' skill. Which dampens its utilization quite a lot, because all of its skills need that many turns to wait, and it accumulates to a lot at the end.

Though however, these combo-attacks deal higher damage, I'm not sure if that makes it more balance when its losing the ability to use the different skill sets earlier on.

2) Cooldowns are extremely long for a lot of the skills. Even the defensive shield, which I had hoped to only have a 3-turn or 2-turn standard CD, it went to a whooping 9. I don't understand the reason behind this? Unless ChronoZ is meant to be an all-out glass-cannon?


The thing about these combos is that they (apart from the massive piercing combo, stun, and heal) don't have cooldowns per say. You can keep repeating the combos as long as you have mana or the enemy is alive. So while you can't stack as many buffs or conditions on your enemy, you can apply them very regularly. They also do, as you mentioned, a lot more damage than other class counterparts. I also added the blink forward, which lets you turn 3 turn combos into 2 turn, and 2 turn combos into one turn. I think there's a lot more flexibility than you may have experienced.

quote:

They need to all be equally strong as the sword combo to be any good


Sword combo also puts the piercing combo and combos that depend on it on cooldown.
Have you tried mixing the combo skills? They can be pretty strong and have some great effects.



Xanaomin -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 23:19:06)

quote:

They need to all be equally strong as the sword combo to be any good


Well, if you're judging it all based on the final final (IE sword > sword > sword) then of course the other abilities look weak.
You seem to be forgetting the combos between using all three attacks in different patterns. You're not supposed to go for the final sword combo unless you're finishing off the opponent.



eatfist -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 23:51:31)

Ive tried the other combos all of them seem lacking in damage the sword combo is the only good one other than the stun
and besides who can remeber all the combos i sure as heck cant.



Xanaomin -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 0:07:25)

You're inclined to your own opinion. I'm done arguing about it.


Now, for another bug:
The spotter combo doesn't increase your accuracy, it looks like...



D_Falt -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 4:14:43)

For all of you complaining, this class JUST got a major buff, overall damage has been significantly increased, I could go into details, but simply put, the combos and moves do much more damage now (Healing also heals more). The names were changed as well, they're more 'time' related, and for those that wanted an instant multi, the staff decided to give you something much better. There is now a move called 'blink', and what it does is allow you to do 3(Including the current move) moves in 1. So therefore, since the multi combo for this class requires you to do 2 bow combos in a row, you can attack, AND do a multi all in the same turn (Remembering the damage got buffed). The entire left bar is full now, I already told you about the new 'blink' move, but they added kick as well (Fancy new animation), AND, they added a move called Reverse time, which costs NO mana, and heals for a MASSIVE amount (Not sure if scaled). It healed me for 800 health and mana... (35 turns of cooldown though :P)

This class just got beast, you can't compare it to Shadowhunter, I think this is the best calendar armor so far :)



snakehulk21220 -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 6:31:00)

it is a great class, i love it, my main issue is the multi is basically worthless like i said before, 100 damage on something that has 700-1500 or more hp makes it a waste of time when in the same time i could use a stronger single enemy hit attack, kill the main guy im targeting for sure (sometimes the multi cant even kill off the main targeted foe) and have the final charged and ready for the second guy.

same number of turns.

more effective

better plan


i honestly dont mind the magic combo anymore now that ive used it a few times, but that multi isnt worth using im sorry but it needs a buff at LEAST on the off enemies hit, main target is fine damage wise, sometimes its enough to down them but sometimes not, feels like most multi's ive used in the past, but that off enemy damage needs a decent damage buff or else i doubt itll get much real use.




Lord Ferret -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 7:04:11)

ChronoZ is now a great Armor. All combo attacks give out decent damage and it looks good Well done Tomix and the Boxcat job well done.



Greldracion -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 11:27:39)

I agree, the armor is better with the updates, but Verl got me thinking. If the heal is too powerful that he thinks that it needs a carry over cooldown, why not give it a 4 turn cooldown at the beginning of a battle and changing the stats to 40%/40%, so as to discourage going straight into blink and then using heal. He could also make it so that reverse does not work during blink, so as to not have insane combos, while still being able to do the reverse and keep the armor powerful.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 12:30:27)

quote:

I agree, the armor is better with the updates, but Verl got me thinking. If the heal is too powerful that he thinks that it needs a carry over cooldown, why not give it a 4 turn cooldown at the beginning of a battle and changing the stats to 40%/40%, so as to discourage going straight into blink and then using heal. He could also make it so that reverse does not work during blink, so as to not have insane combos, while still being able to do the reverse and keep the armor powerful.


Those are some nice ideas! I might add a preliminary cooldown to the heal like you suggested for the final version. That makes a lot of sense!
I don't mind the insane combos of blink + reverse- I want to keep as many options open as possible, even if they're pretty nuts! :)



eatfist -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 12:50:23)

The heal and blink are fine as is there needs to be no startup cooldown
Can the class be finished already keep it as after some buffs so i can redeem the code already


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Midnightsoul -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 13:05:50)

@Verlyrus

Do you mind making the shield better by making it into +80 melee, pierce, and magic defense and have it last for 3-4 turns? Also please reduce the cooldown just a little. It would make survival much easier for ChronoZ because of the combos it has to use.
It'd be nice if it was just as good as Dragonlord's.

May you also buff the damage for all the combos so each of the skills do about 150-200% damage on the first combo? It'd make the mana cost more worthwhile. Thank you!



The Odor -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 13:20:04)

Having had a chance to test it out it seems quite awesome now, and probably balanced with the two other Chrono classes I own (haven't done a side by side comparision with ChronoCorruppter). The combo system is still extremely fun. It's new heal skill is awe-inspiringly good and makes its Glass-cannon approach be viable in almost every fight.

EDIT: I tried the armour out against Raze al Ghoul and beat him with the second most ease I have had with a class. (the top dog being DMK.)



madman 13 -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 14:19:43)

Anyone else find it weird that the people who have the code can't even redeem it yet, much less use the armor, despite being the only ones who'll be able to access it later?



Ithraen -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 14:23:50)

madman, that'd be because the class isn't actually out yet. This is just a test preview.



eatfist -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 14:50:57)

verly do u have idead when the final product will be done



dsicarii -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 15:26:23)

I've noticed on the shield, it applies 220 more to my Dodge/Block/Parry on the next turn, rather than the turn I use it on, and it then functions as expected, so I'm not experiencing it being bugged.

quote:

Do you mind making the shield better by making it into +80 melee, pierce, and magic defense

220 Dodge/Block/Parry is roughly equivalent to 80 Melee/Piece/Magic according the the formula somewhere in the guides (When I ran the numbers a couple of days ago it came out to either 78.5% or 79.5%, can't recall which for certain, so assuming the formula is correct you currently get either 79% or 80% Dodge/Block/Parry).

Edit: I found the formula I was thinking of here in the Cryptic guide, but can't find where Frostburn originally gave the formula (seems as though it was in the Q&A forum and might be too old to still exist now, going by the Acknowledgements in the guide and my utter inability to find anything older than several days in the Q&A forum manually or by search).
The formula given there is:
quote:

Average chance to avoid enemy attack = [( block + parry + dodge ) / 280] / 3 * 100 + z - y

Assume 100% evasion = 280
y = enemy bonus; z = your defense (melee/pierce/magic)


I tested again, and still get 220 to Dodge/Block/Parry (plus the 5 to each defensive stat across the board from the armor alone that I won't be figuring in) the turn after I shield. Again assuming the formula is correct, the shield alone gives me 78.57(and change)% chance to Dodge, Block, or Parry an attack, without taking any other defenses or the mob(s)'s stats into account. If I'm not mistaken that would round up to 79%, which is a pretty powerful shield, even if it its cooldown is longer than I'd expect.



LigerBeard -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 20:12:35)

After the update, this became my new favorite class. Btw, if you've already entered the code once, will you be able to enter it again to get the class? If not, then is there some other way that somebody who entered the code early could get the class?



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 20:20:58)

If you already entered your code, don't worry. You'll still receive it after it goes live!

As for when this will be released, I'm aiming for next Friday. I still have a couple things to work out and tweak (like adding a starting cooldown to Reverse Time, and trying to smooth out the last couple glitches).



johnhuang731 -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 21:14:09)

I think for a time class it should have a move that summons a friend who walked by recently. So maybe a 50 percent chance for ash and 25 for Robina and 10 for Artix and 7 for tomix 5 for Korran and 3 for rolith



eatfist -> RE: =DF= ChronoZ Testing Discussion Thread (3/22/2014 22:06:02)

Johung no just no i think the class just should be done with since it has been buffed i think its ready to go live after the damage over enemy head thing is fixed



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