Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (Full Version)

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Noobatron x3000 -> Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:25:20)

Ok I think everyone knows something has to be done about these classes. Now I have a couple of ideas feel free to add your own

for hp cut the health improvement in halve (12 hp per skill point -6hp per skill point) still making high hp possible with decent builds just making OP builds harder to achieve .

Strengh simply put I feel should be slightly stronger then dex or tech and atm its massively stronger it needs pulling back.

The only idea I have here is a agility like system that works off strength once you start to abuse you start to gain a higher chance to be blocked + deflected the more you abuse the higher the % gos.

Or simply hit strength with diminishing returns a lot harder to bring it closer in line with other stats.



Mother1 -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:33:25)

@ Noobatron

Agility was admitted to be a band aid fix by the staff themselves and a bad one at that. The main reason agility was used was because stats themselves weren't balanced correctly. Putting back agility to be a band aid fix at best, and the original problem won't be fix.

Also for you idea on strength how would this affect lower levels players? This move will not only hurt them, but box them into using those dex builds even more since you will in turn be removing options from them as well.

I seriously think with this they need to stop putting on the band aids for the gaping wounds, and pull out the sewing kit to stitch the wound close. This can be done by balancing the stats instead of adding diminishing returns and/or Agility.



Xendran -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:40:18)

Nerf strength and tanks will become overpowered. You can never have strength be balanced in a turn based pvp environment unless def/res become percentage. It's just literally and mathematically impossible.

It's the same thing that's happened in the past anyway. When str is too good, offensive builds rule. When it gets nerfed, tank builds rule. There has never been a middle ground and there never will be if they keep their stat systems.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:44:12)

I was reasonable I said keep strength slightly better per point then def/res just the gap now is to much far to much.

What you can do with 75 strength at 40 vs 75 dex/tech at 40 is ridicolous



Xendran -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:45:11)

It has nothing to do with being reasonable, it has to do with the fact that it is literally impossible to balance strength with the current game systems.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 11:58:58)

They cantr continue to leave the game completely broken with more holes in it then anything because its difficult to fix. Its gone to far.



Xendran -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 12:01:39)

If you don't want them to leave the game completely broken, why are you suggesting something that both leaves the game completely broken AND takes up time?
There is no point doing minor modifications to stats at this point, me and others are serious when we say its impossible to balance without literally remaking every stat.

I will repeat and say it is literally impossible because of flat defenses.



Mother1 -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/18/2014 12:13:12)

In other words they need to scrap the game and rebuild everything from how support scales to how a basic strike works. I remember you saying Noobatron that the time for band aid fixes is done and drastic measures need to be taken to fix the game yet hear you are suggesting another band aid fix on a gaping wound.

Nothing short of a complete jenny Jones make over will fix this game sadly.



King FrostLich -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 2:01:58)

quote:

Nerf strength and tanks will become overpowered. You can never have strength be balanced in a turn based pvp environment unless def/res become percentage. It's just literally and mathematically impossible.


You mean a formula using an asymptotic % of defenses and whenever a certain skill adds a % to said defense, it stacks multiplicatively to prevent reaching 100%?



kosmo -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 4:00:38)

^exactly that s why defences can t work on %, the progression would be even more massy than what is now.

strenght builds work out of hp, due to the way rage is setted (which penalize defences but not helth);
so when lvl 40 got relised, the cheep stat progression (which was working at lvl 35) allowed us to invest our points only into hp, causing all of this.

rework the hp OR the strenght/defence progression into a less cheep one.







comicalbike -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 4:01:27)

Mother1 i am sad to say you are correct



Xendran -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 5:31:20)

quote:

^exactly that s why defences can t work on %, the progression would be even more massy than what is now.

strenght builds work out of hp, due to the way rage is setted (which penalize defences but not helth);


In no way shape or form is it messy. Having damage scaling multipliers on skills being only for weaopns, skill multipliers being after def/es, the entire rage system and the existence of minimum damage are all symptoms of flat def/res. Ive been doing game balance as my career for a few years now, and i have never seen flat defences work properly.



kosmo -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 5:51:01)

yeah, but how would a % based defence scale less cheep and massy than now?

what stat progression that should have?



zion -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 6:30:30)

Even the original AdventureQuest has percentage based defensive/blocking modifiers... so I'm sure there's some reusable AS code lying around the lab!



Xendran -> RE: Time to fix strengh and hp builds across the classes. (3/19/2014 6:43:45)

@Kosmo: every stat needs to be remade from the ground up, this has been established. We cant just throw random numbers at you...



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