RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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FallenAngel -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 16:15:35)

quote:

I'll give you the same answer I gave everyone else when they wanted me to fix small issues with the other two. If I poke at anything, other than a bug, on the Atalean classes I'm re-balancing ALL of the skills on ALL of them, not just adjusting one skill on one class. So you either get a whole new skill set on all 3 or you deal with a skill being meant to be used on turn one, regardless of what the name sounds like. Honestly with everything Cryptic can do the Final skill should be the least of anyone's worries.

(Most everyone screamed "NO LEAVE THEM ALONE" the last time so make of that what you will)


Probably the same people who yelled "Don't halve my crit man!"? Many people just hate any form of change ^^;
Well, obviously these things are highly subjective and as such this skill was high on my "list of worries"(so to speak), or I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of making a decent sized post including some math ; )
Not that I'm gonna claim Cryptic can't hold its own or anything like that, even with MA's use "gimped"(and I use that term loosely) as it is, the class still performs well. It just irks me that when a skill is built on a concept(like building stacks it then consumes to become more powerful) and then ignoring that concept because it's subpar to use up those stacks(tvtropes would label this as Awesome but Impractical).

Your explanation of either doing a complete rebalancing of all three classes or leaving them alone for now is understandable though(I didn't know the same thing had come up with the other 2 classes and was already rebuffed, or I wouldn't have asked). I guess a (possible) revamp like that would be quite a bit in the future though(if at all).
Ah well, one can hope. Like Shadows above me, I'd also be interested in what the Atealan classes would look like under your pen.
Thank you for for taking the time to respond(and so fast as well)!



Ash -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 16:26:49)

No, actually. Most of the people who didn't want it to change were the ones who like the changes I've done so far to things. It's just the fact that the classes right now are functioning really well and don't need to be redone just because one or two skills on them aren't all that great. (They still have a "trip" skill. I mean if we're going to suggest which skills to remove THAT one should be higher on the list of wants)

Sometimes a skill doesn't function with the rest of the skills mainly to make sure it doesn't function TO well. The only one of the classes that functions in a way that's a detriment is Riftwalker and even then it's not a really horrible issue since its built on being burst rather than sustain. Giving Cryptic an extra bump up in damage, even considering the fact it would work well, means that it's going to do more damage. That means you're improving a class, even if it's a little bit of an improvement, that is already functioning really well. That's not really an option outside of totally redoing how the skills work together. I don't want to just flat buff a skill, which going by the change you want is a flat buff, without being able to take something else away. I can't do that without redoing more than one skill.

I also read every thread that goes up that relates to game balance. I may not always respond to them but I read every one of them.



FallenAngel -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 17:38:23)

Interesting, would have thought it would have just been the anti-change faction.
Well, obviously Trip is a bigger problem than MA, everything else being equal, but changing Trip would necessitate changing the whole skill whereas MA could be done just by number tweaking(again, that was my reasoning before you explained why it's not happening, just to explain where I was coming from) which I thought would be easier to facilitate.

I get that, as long as the class as a whole is working satisfactorily, making changes to a single skill here or there effectively raises the power level, though the originally proposed change would not simply be a flat buff as you say, it actually does lower the possible total 1-turn damage output(i.e. farming), if admittedly not by much. Again, not to say I don't understand where you're coming from, I do, it's just a pet peeve of mine I felt I had to talk about ^^.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 18:12:56)

sadly i will never get to use the class makes me regret picking warrior at the start :/



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 19:26:27)

@DLU. if you have DC you can change your base class with the black market moglin IIRC, it's a pretty big price, but doable... you can also create a new character to play around with it supposing you have a DA on the whole account

oh, and just wanted to point out that i wouldn't really mind having the 3 revamped, though they are pretty good right now, so it would be somewhat of a waste of time, since this time could be used in releases, if you guys had an infinite amount of time in your hands and nothing better to do, i'd like to see them revamped, but as i just said, i don't find it worth the effort right now



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/23/2015 19:37:26)

To reply to Fallen Angel, Mental Assasination has always made sense to me, especially as a class centred around crits, thematically at least.

As a class specialising on critical hits it makes sense that an emergency/final move would always crit, and I say an emergency move because it resets the crit boost.
This works as when your paranoia hits its peak and your thinking "uh oh I need to end this fast" you have to decide to trade your high crit rate rotation for explosive impact in a hope that it ends he foe.

Besides, assuming max crit rate of 80/2 is 40 plus 10 from luck is 50, then 25 from the passive and your at 75% crit rate. Your not going to be under veil? for the extra crit when doing this move as that moves defense plus offense means your already in a good position and shouldn't be blowing potential damage for immediate damage unless its about to die. This means that there is a 25% chance assuming max and much higher if lower that you wouldn't crit, and that thematically makes no sense on a crit class for its final.

I'm definitely on board most revamps and would be on board some revamps that aren't happening but the atealian classes are not one of them. Too many people, me included like them as they are and if they were to be rebalanced they would be changed. If they were severely unbalanced like old doomknight (or even not that bad) then sure they would need rebalancing but as they are within the realms of acceptability I really see no point on spending the time and effort on a project that will probably divide the community.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/24/2015 3:07:04)

If the Atealans were revamped I strongly suspect they would be nerfed overall. All 3 of them are extremely powerful classes (I've said before that I think they push the bounds of tier 3) which aren't even remotely difficult to acquire, so little things like Mental Assassination only being good as a 1st-turn nuke are hardly worth complaining about in the grand scheme of things.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/24/2015 8:37:54)

Brasca i am aware of that but im not going to buy dcs to change the base class its just not worth it seeing how expensive it is, it just bugs me that you would be locked out of a class because of a choice from the start of the game you had no idea would effect anything but the base class then it turns out surprise the one you chose is not your style at all so every class tacked onto the base class wont be your style :/ in a perfect world we would be able to choose one then be locked out of the other classes so at least we make a willing choice i know it wont happen but i can dream.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/24/2015 9:15:43)

But the Atealans are just stronger versions of their respective base classes with passives attached; the actual effects of the abilities are almost all identical, just with higher numbers and interactions with the passives on the finals. So if you liked Warrior best, it stands to reason that you'd like RiftWalker best, due to how incredibly similar they are...



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/24/2015 9:21:35)

and multi characters is a thing as well, tbh, i think the only reason one might want multiple characters in DF is to have access to different atelean classes



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Cryptic Discussion Thread (9/25/2015 16:24:37)

i am also aware of that...im not a new player, im not looking for a solution i was just saying what would be nice not everyone has the time or money to invest into s new character.



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