Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (Full Version)

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Rui. -> Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 7:46:51)

1. Super charge - It has 3 specialties
a. Ignore resistance
b. Restore Health back to the caster
3. 200 minimum damage

2. Massacre .. At level 1 it just does 200 Damage .. no other specialty.

3. Surgical
a. Reduces rage by 50%
b. Restore Health back to the caster
3. 200 minimum damage

So comparing skills at level 1 .. surgical is way to Overpowered considering it can be used with a sword.

I guess the "minimum" damage needs to changed at least to the numbers below.

Massacre 400. ( considering it is using a useless stat - support compared to the other 2 that use defensive stat points )
Super charge 200
Surgical 50

What do you feel ? is there something wrong here or am I just failing to see the point ?



comicalbike -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 9:34:30)

the point is we are waiting for them to fix the game



Seteriel -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 9:35:23)

I think giving Surgical Strike the weapon requirement would be solid.

Increasing Massacre's minimum damage however is a no go. At least by this amount. Better would be something like
- ignores 20% of defenses
- restore health to the attacker
The health restored would not stack with Mark of Blood (this is actually true for any combination of 2 life stealers), but still bring Massacre to the power of the other 2 ultimate skills.

It should be tested and compared between the 3 ultimates however, how damages stack:
- how good goes Super Charge (tech based) with other skills/builds of TM and BM ?
- how good goes Surgical Strike (tech based) with other skills/builds of TLM and Merc ?
- how good goes Massacre (weapon/strength based) with other skills/builds of BH and CH ?
Maybe the "weakness" of Massacre, as well as the missing weapon requirement of Surgical Strike, are justified by these points.



ScarletReaper -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 11:05:01)

I think they should at least had health regen on massacre since the other 2 have it. Yes massacre goes good with strength builds so it can do a lot of damage, but at the same time, a tech merc can do massive damage with surgical strike as well as take away your rage meter. Fair? Not to me.



Mother1 -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 11:48:41)

Well with all the nerfs to strength I am not surprised why no one uses Massacre like that. If I remember correctly the lack of effect for Massacre were due to the following

1 Bloodlust was passive when this came out so for BH they had passive health gain with all attacks including Massacre
2 You could get so much Damage from the move anyways so there was no need for any effects
3 Supercharge and Surgical strike do less damage and scale with a different stat hence the effects.

@ seterial

Surgical strike unlike Massacre and supercharge don't get any kind of damage boost or ignoring defenses effect like the other two do. Surgical strike has to go through 100% of the energy's resist unlike Supercharge that ignores part of the energy's resist, and massacre that get a damage buff.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 12:24:09)

Massacre also costs 10 more energy than the other specials.



Rui. -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 15:46:19)

quote:

Surgical strike unlike Massacre and supercharge don't get any kind of damage boost or ignoring defenses effect like the other two do. Surgical strike has to go through 100% of the energy's resist unlike Supercharge that ignores part of the energy's resist, and massacre that get a damage buff.


Mother I was referring to the effectiveness of the ultimate skills at level 1.

Surgical is way too useful at "level 1" compared to the other ultimate's.

If I am spending 320 or 330 energy I would like to see some damage or a special effect like rage steal or regen health by 300 or something on those lines




Cyber Dream -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 16:24:25)

I think weapon requirements should be taken out the game completely..it's killing the build diversity



Mother1 -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 16:26:15)

@ cyber dream

The moment you do that is the moment class weapons become obsolete and everyone will be running around with swords. I mean why would someone use a class weapon when they could have a sword that not only give them more power, but can do everything a class weapon could to as well?



Rui. -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 16:37:56)

It would help if stat requirements were totally removed tho? Why would I wanna use support for a strength based skill. Why doesn't zerk require support ?



Mother1 -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 16:53:12)

@ rui

those were put in to prevent abuse. Take a look at how plasma bolt when it was buffed back in delta. You could get massive damage from this move that was even stronger than bunker blaster and you could rage it at that for even more damage.

that was a nightmare and it is exactly was you are suggesting for all moves. Remove those and what is to stop someone from spamming a stat and bulldozing everything with one stat or better yet just HP and Strength?



Rui. -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 19:32:41)

@ mother

quote:

those were put in to prevent abuse. Take a look at how plasma bolt when it was buffed back in delta. You could get massive damage from this move that was even stronger than bunker blaster and you could rage it at that for even more damage.

that was a nightmare and it is exactly was you are suggesting for all moves. Remove those and what is to stop someone from spamming a stat and bulldozing everything with one stat or better yet just HP and Strength?


Ur comparison makes no sense whatsoever in this instance,

What does plasma bolt have to do with ultimate's ?

Ultimate cant be raged.. I am not suggesting what ur implying .. can u explain how ur getting that idea or how I am hinting that ?

Read what I have written again .. let me break it up for u .. so you understand.. Massacare 400 damage at lvl 1 .. surgical 50 damage minimum and super charge 200 .. now do u get it ?

Since massacare does not have 2 other special abilities to go with it .. Else give massacare a special ability to return 32% health back or the support req needs to be removed since sup is a dead stat now

Do not mix up ur thoughts to the main reason I made this post and deviate from the objective.. Please.. Thanks



Mother1 -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 19:54:11)

@ Rui

In the post I was quoting you never mentioned this was just for ultimate's It sounded like you were talking about for all moves. Especially when you mentioned berzerker. That was why I brought that example with Plasma bolt.

But even so it your complaint is confusing as well.

Cause at first you were mentioned surgical strike being too strong at level one When in fact it is the least powerful damage wise, (due to having no damage multipiers or resist ignoring traits) and the only thing I could think of you having a complaint of with this is the passive ability to remove rage cause otherwise it is just a weaker version of supercharge (due to it not having defense ignoring properties)

Now you are mentioning how Massacre doesn't have any special effects which was completely different from the reason you were originally posting.

But on the topic of ultimate's being weak damage wise that was done on purpose so players would have to invest in the moves. If you remember in the past players complained about Massacre being too powerful even at the lower levels and in response to this the staff nerfed the move directly and indirectly so you would have to invest in it to get power out of it.





Rui. -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/3/2014 20:07:26)

1. No I wouldn't talk about zerk cliché in a ultimate related thread. sorry if u felt that way
2. I am not complaing here what so ever.
3. I am not hinting that surgical is strong or weak or 1 skill is weak or stronger..

What I am stating here is this .. 3 ultimates.. all do 200 damage at level 1 with same stats on it.

Eg if I have 45 + 35 Tech / dex / strength .. all the skills will do 200 damage. on a player with same defenses / resistance.

Hence .. surgical gets an upper hand at reducing rage+ health return .. Supercharge comes next with giving back some health .. where massacare does not do anything special at level 1

I am putting emphasis on level 1 here.. .

quote:

ultimate's being weak damage wise that was done on purpose so players would have to invest in the moves. If you remember in the past players complained about Massacre being too powerful even at the lower levels and in response to this the staff nerfed the move directly and indirectly so you would have to invest in it to get power out of it.
.


The past is the past .. we didn't have a million energy draining skills/cores back then. Hence investing on max now is pointless since you will never get to use any successfully.

If you still don't get it .. Feel free to Pm me .. no point going back and forth in here if your missing the point . thanks









Pemberton -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/4/2014 0:24:40)

You cannot balance this game just by looking at one skill, you need to balance the whole classes.



Jacobfarrow1 -> RE: Class Ultimate - somthing is wrong in the design (6/4/2014 20:20:45)

Alright, Rui., I'll show you that you DID indeed talk about Berzerker in "an ultimate related threat", aka this one.

quote:

Rui. Date 6/3/2014 16:37:56
It would help if stat requirements were totally removed tho? Why would I wanna use support for a strength based skill. Why doesn't zerk require support ?


Hopefully you notice all the emphasis on the work "zerk".

Oh, and here's something else:
quote:

3. I am not hinting that surgical is strong or weak or 1 skill is weak or stronger..

And now for this...
quote:

Hence .. surgical gets an upper hand at reducing rage+ health return .. Supercharge comes next with giving back some health .. where massacare does not do anything special at level 1


An upper hand usually means it has an advantage over something, i.e. strong(er).



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