Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (Full Version)

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Predator9657 -> Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 11:13:57)

Reducing the cooldown from 3 turns to 2 turns.

Effect:
An aux currently can only be used once every 4 turns. Reducing this to 3 will increase the total potential damage output by the aux by 33.3% (4/3)

Why?
Buffing the aux indirectly buffs support which is significantly weaker than the other stats. Increase the value of the aux in battle might be enough to put it on par with the other stats, or at least closer to that.

Potential problems:
Support spam builds will get a buff. But they died out quite a while ago and even with this buff, it would be highly unlikely that they will become OP.

Anything else bad about buffing aux? Not that I can think of.



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 11:21:48)

Why not reduce it to 2 turns like the gun ?



Mother1 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 12:19:09)

@ rui

that is what he is suggesting to reduce the cooldown from 3 turns to 2.

@ op

At lower levels the merc support build is still being used. Plus aux's are more powerful that the sidearms that is why the cooldown is longer. Doing so will make support merc's at lower levels even harder to deal with.



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 13:21:15)

OP is confused..

quote:

Effect:
An aux currently can only be used once every 4 turns. Reducing this to 3 will increase the total potential damage output by the aux by 33.3% (4/3)


You should know better aux is 4 turn cooldown -.- he wants it made to 3.. I say lets go for 2 :D



Mother1 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 13:36:03)

@ Rui.

When you use the aux you can't use it for another 3 turns.

When the fourth turn comes it is removed from cool down. That is what he means.

But if this is done the power of the aux needs to be nerfed. Aux's give 50 more points of damage then the primary and sidearm and that would make lower levels players who run support builds (Support merc's) a more powerful as a result.

Just because support is weak at the higher levels doesn't mean it isn't good at lower levels for certain classes and builds.



The berserker killer -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/18/2014 14:55:04)

I can honestly say that I support this. Support needs a buff and everyone has been thinking of ways to make it more important in the game so why not reduce Aux cooldown to 2 turns. Old builds that used to be fun can be brought back, and more influential if this were brought into the game. Especially Support Builds.

I'm just one person but I think this should seriously be considered and I know what you mean Mother which is why I like your comments. You think about the entire player base instead of one group.

I think this should be considered though. So supported.



Predator9657 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 10:17:01)

quote:

OP is confused..

You should know better aux is 4 turn cooldown -.- he wants it made to 3..


@Rui:

Lool, it helps if you read and understand the original post before making ridiculous comments.

But I'll make it really simple for you:

Turn 1 = Fire aux
Turns 2+3+4 = cooldown
Turn 5 = Shoot it again
Turns 6+7+8 = cooldown
Turn 9 = Shoot it again
Turns 10+11+12 = cooldown
Turn 13 = Shoot it again
Turns 14+15+16 = cooldown
Turn 17 = Shoot it again
Turns 18+19+20 = cooldown

So every 20 turns you can shoot it 5 times. Therefore the aux is fired at a maximum rate of once every 4 turns (20/5=4).

(Next you're probably going to tell me most matches don't even last 20 rounds >.> )

@Mother:

So the main problems seems to be OP support builds at lower levels. At least having 2 OP builds at lower levels (support spam and dext spam) is better for balance than just having one :P



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 10:45:58)

What was soo ridiculous ?

Your confusing the hell outta meeh > . >

Can you make me understand how u got that 33% ?

quote:

Reducing this to 3 will increase the total potential damage output by the aux by 33.3% (4/3)



zion -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 10:59:56)

Just another way of saying you would get to use the aux again 33% faster than with the current cooldown. Over time that would average to 33% more total damage output from the aux.



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 11:03:44)

"increase the total potential damage output by the aux by 33.3% '" Means if I am doing 100 damage I can potentially do 133..

His idea is not that ... what he is trying to say is it will make aux a more viable or feasible option or give support some power.

Has nothing to do with damage output period

I 4 turn end games with massacre. In a number based game suggestions need to be thought thru or can be misleading



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 15:09:27)

Rui what he's getting at is if you did 100 damage each shoot over twenty rounds with you aux you would have done 500 damage. If you shorten the cooldown by one turn you can now use the aux 7 times which would do 700 damage.

Now you are looking at an increase of 200 damage which is a 40% boost in damage output. It does not matter what number you put in you will always get a forty percent increase.

Can I ask how long the average battle is because I really don't know but I do know it isn't 20 rounds.

Also to really explain what he is talking about it is an increased damage over time not an outright increase to damage



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 15:54:10)

angel how did you get 40% now ?



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/19/2014 18:48:21)

700-500=200
200/500 is .4

Thus 700 is 140% of 500. This can also be read as a 40% boost


Anymore questions



Predator9657 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/20/2014 10:20:12)

quote:

Can you make me understand how u got that 33% ?


@Rui:

Simple maths. Right now (with a cooldown of 3) you can use the aux once ever 4 turns (So on average, damage per turn is 1/4 = 0.25 = 25%).
With a cooldown of 2, you can use it every 3 turns (So on average, damage per turn is 1/3 = 0.33 = 33%).

So if we reduce the cooldwon from 3 to 2, we are increasing the average damage per turn from 25% to 33%. Therefore the ratio of increase (in damage per turn) is 33%/25% which is 133%.

If you haven't learnt this at school yet (I understand that this game is targeted for a younger audience - no offence to your intelligence is intended in any way) then at least you will agree that reducing the cooldown will increase the total damage that you can do in the whole battle?

@Angel:

quote:

Now you are looking at an increase of 200 damage which is a 40% boost in damage output. It does not matter what number you put in you will always get a forty percent increase.


You made a slight error in your calculation. You need to use a "number of turns of the battle" figure which is a common multiple of both 3 and 4 (12, 24 etc...) to calculate the correct percentage increase.

The reason why using round 20 wont work for comparisons is because, at round 20 an aux with a cooldown of 3, has completed its cooldown (and is ready for reuse) while an aux with a cooldown of 2 still has a turn left of cooldown before it can be reused; so as you can see, it is a biased comparison at that round.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/20/2014 11:11:06)

I just used the maximum number of times one can use an Aux in 20 turns. But yeah if I do a common multiple I get 33% increase.






Combatoid -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/23/2014 23:15:46)

The only possible way that I can see the cooldown being reduced is if the damage output was decreased by 33%, which personally I wouldn't be too excited for. Also, the claim that support is significantly weaker isn't a very strong claim since a lot of skills increase with it already. (But I do think that heal should still increase with support, but not as significantly as in Alpha-Gamma/Delta)



Rui. -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/24/2014 5:47:45)

@ predator

If you cant understand the logic behind what I said then there is no use going back and forth on this.

40% is a wrong number 33% is a misleading figure..

If a battle ends in 4 turns aux doesn't get any bonus damage like you intended.

I am sure you get this message but being defensive in a smart manner aint helping..

To keep it short read my post .. understand it and move on, Bottom line .. this is just gonna make support more useful that's about it.




Jacobfarrow1 -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/24/2014 14:31:46)

@ Rui.

Nobody said anything about the battle ending in 4 turns. Also, can you show reasoning why you believe 33% is misleading? The others have already shown you the math, if you don't believe them, then try the math yourself.

One more thing: If 40% is wrong, and 33% is misleading, what do YOU think is the right number?



xzkamityx -> RE: Reduce auxiliary cooldown by 1 (6/29/2014 17:48:49)

quote:

Also, the claim that support is significantly weaker isn't a very strong claim since a lot of skills increase with it already. (But I do think that heal should still increase with support, but not as significantly as in Alpha-Gamma/Delta)


Probably the best idea I've ever heard to balance support. Decreasing aux damage to 10-30 damage over a gun with a 3 turn cooldown makes it useless, the damage is fine. Also decreasing the turn by 1 with the damage it has can also be a bad idea. Yes it would make support great for the higher levels, but for the low levels support mercs and support tlms will dominate the game. In my mind the easiest way to to make support completely balance is have it scale with the same as dex or tech, or have field medic scale with support like the same way it scales with levels now.



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