2vs2 suggestion (Full Version)

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lionblades -> 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 18:24:43)

Instead of matchmaking balance, I thought of some other 2vs2 req. that can help big time.

Requirements for a better 2vs2 experience:

1. Fully upgraded gear (w/o robot) now that you get everything except robot

2. If partner leaves in start or middle of the match. The leaver gets a penalty (you can decide) and the person staying gets no loss.

3. If partner skips when no one is stunned and he/she is not at rage, the other partner can leave without a penalty. No one wants to play with a skipper.



Mother1 -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 19:35:49)


For number 1 I am iffy because you here you are basically telling people how to spend credits they may not even have. Not everyone saves credits and there are many who buy stuff that can be very expensive. While it is a good idea some may not be able to do so due to spending habits.

For 2 I don't support. Many players can get disconnected or lag out due to something that isn't their fault, and punishing them for this isn't fair either. If you can prove they left on purpose yeah that is one thing, but not everyone leaves a duel on purpose.

For 3 I don't support either. People do have real life problems that can cause them to skip turns. So lets just say the mail man came with a package for me and I go and get it while playing the game only to come back to find my partner quit because I skipped how is that fair? You need to take into account that real life situations can happen to people to cause them to skip on you and it isn't on purpose.



lionblades -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 20:00:53)

@Mother1
Wow...unbelievable
First, my 1st suggestion DOES NOT require anyone to SPEND credits. All tutorial items are FREE.
Now this:
quote:

For 2 I don't support. Many players can get disconnected or lag out due to something...punishing them isn't fair...

If they have that bad of a lag they shouldn't even play 2vs2. Its called 2vs for a reason, not 2vs1
quote:

For 3 I don't support either. People do have real life problems that can cause them to skip turns. So lets just say the mail man came with a package for me and I go and get it while playing the game

Lmao, your playing a game mode that relys on your partner. Sure hold on partner I'm going to skip turns to get the mail. Don't worry we still win lolol.

Your arguments are so shallow, just wow...



Dual Thrusters -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 20:06:55)

It even says in the "Did you Know" that you should stick to 1v1 or NPC if you have Internet problems.



Darkforce832 -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 20:09:45)

Disagree with 1: Gaining credits in ED is pretty difficult at times, depending on your level and spending habits, and if you even plan on what you want early ahead. Not to mention probably kill off matchmaking searches for 2v2 matches.

Disagree with 2: Lag, disconnections, phone calls, mom nagging you etc. If there was a way for ED to figure out who intentionally left a match due to selfish purposes then maybe.

Disagree with 3: I personally hate this when my partner does this, but I also understand real life stuff might be happening as said above.



Mother1 -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 20:19:50)

@ dual thrusters

While that is true what happens when the game farts on it's own or lags on it's own with no fault to you or your connection? This does happen to people and being punished for something that isn't the fault of you or your connection? How is that fair?

If anything all these would to be honest scare people away from two vs two not fix it.



ND Mallet -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 20:51:16)

I don't think 2v2 will ever be gear restricted. Sure you can get free gear, but you still have to earn credits to upgrade the gear, which might be hard for newer players who struggle to get wins as it is against the players who make new accounts just for easier matches. And if they don't know about NPCs then they'll never manage to ever catch up. This also makes it that much harder to buy new gear, which newer players will be inclined to do, not knowing they'll be kicked out of 2v2 because they can't afford to upgrade the rest of their gear.

Restricting 2v2 to gear will pretty much only punish new players who don't know better and will make the game extremely unpleasant for them unless they play NPCs constantly to avoid 1v1 when they reach lvl 25.

A better way to go about matchmaking is to make a new system which matches players based on the approximate level of their overall gear instead of forcing everybody to have fully upgraded gear.



I Underlord I -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 22:02:48)

Whilst I agree that players with weaker Internet connections or a proclivity to running errands or otherwise being busy while playing should limit their time in 2v2, forcing it is not acceptable to either the player or the spirit of the game. In addition, that is notwithstanding the many legitimate reasons people may have for exiting (sudden disconnect despite a stable connection, emergency, etc.) or skipping their turn(s) (errand, server lag or surprising network lag, etc.).

As for the requisite of fully upgraded gear, it is economically unfeasible and a sure way to kill 2v2, if not the entire game; other posters have mentioned exemplary reasons. I agree with ND Mallet's suggestion of matchmaking based on approximate total level of equipment (robots excluded), though there should still be a level range to prevent both level advantage in a given battle as well as disadvantage in rewards if a team with a higher total level wins.



lionblades -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 23:06:25)

@ND Mallet & Underlord
quote:

As for the requisite of fully upgraded gear, it is economically unfeasible

quote:

Sure you can get free gear, but you still have to earn credits to upgrade the gear

You have 100 battles of NPC per day which is 3k per day, PvP battles, and Mission that dont need PvP (which gives you around 50k excluding the recent lionhart missions). What more do you want?
I had enough credits for my L25 alt to class change and that really says something about how they can't "afford" it.

@Underlord
And that is not the nature of my suggestion. If you read my post carfully, I never said forcing players to not play any gamemode. I said a player should not get penalized by a loss when the other partner has to "leave" or "skip" because he/she had to "get the mail" etc.

And ND:
quote:

Restricting 2v2 to gear will pretty much only punish new players who don't know better and will make the game extremely unpleasant for them

Do you think punishing players who do the right thing and actually equipt gear when they play 2vs2 should be penalized? Because allowing no geared partners/skippers/leavers is also a punishment for those who actually want to have a chance. Also, there is not enough no gear players at endgame for your suggestion to work. Yes, a few players have gear but no upgrades (so primary does 30 dmg) but players just leave when they see them which is very understandable since they have almost no chance.

Idc if the skipper/leaver get no penalty, but if I am playing with a partner who leaves (including dc) or is a skipper, I am well within my rights to leave and not get a penalty. Its called 2vs2 for a reason, not 2vs1.



Mother1 -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/21/2014 23:59:08)

@ Lionblades

Like you I love 2 vs 2 and it is also my favorite battle mode of the three. However, giving the ability to punish a player to the partner who gets left alone when the disconnect may very well not be the fault of the player is very unfair. Remember the game does kick players sometimes as well as other things. This has happened to me quite a few times even when my connection is running strong. Image a players surprise to find out they are being penalized for a disconnect that was the fault of the system and not their own.

That right there in itself will discourage players from playing 2 vs 2 because they are getting unfairly punished and are worried about partners who decide to do this to them. if there was a way for the system to tell this stuff or a way to 100% prove it then by all means punish away those kinds of players don't belong in two vs two which many of us can agree. But when innocent players get caught up in the process that is when the solution becomes a problem.

Also I myself as well as many other have had real life situations such as the one I mentioned and many others happen which causes this to happen. Most partners I do this too if it does happen I apologize to and let them know the situation. While it may not help us win I still show the common courtesy to let them know it wasn't on purpose. Plus sometimes while missing one turn can be fatal other times it isn't. However a partner leaving a match because of this is far worse. Cause 1 turn sometimes doesn't break you, seeing as said person can still be a meat shield or distraction, however the person who would leave free of penalty just sent the other person to their doom.




lionblades -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/22/2014 10:25:50)

@Mother1
Something I said in my previous post:
quote:


Idc if the skipper/leaver gets no penalty, but if I am playing with a partner who leaves (including dc) or is a skipper, I am well within my rights to leave and not get a penalty. Its called 2vs2 for a reason, not 2vs1.

You said that players that skip and leave the game can be innocent. I agree, yeah, some but not all. Also, what about the players that get left behind because of these skippers and leavers? These players are ALL innocent, not just some (besides the ones that have no gear but I have a solution to that). If you think it is hard to earn credits, look at my above post which explains how easy it is accumulate extreme amounts credits at low levels (higher levels can do Lionhart missions, boss missions, etc). My suggestion is mainly so the people that get left behind don't get a penalty. Like you said, missing one turn can be crucial or maybe not. However, in a 40 battle, it is almost always crucial. 1 turn can literally turn the game around. Not so much for lower levels, but this is no excuse to skip. By all means, I will take away the penalty for skippers and leavers in my suggestion (since your argument revolves solely on that), BUT I should not get penalized by a loss when my partner has left or is a skips (by that I mean unstrategic skipping as in no stunned players and not at rage). 2vs2 not 2vs1.



King Bling -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/22/2014 10:58:04)

quote:

(higher levels can do Lionhart missions, boss missions, etc)


Since those who dont have gear at high level cannot even do the missions since most of the missions need to fight some npc or 1vs1 2vs2, which again means they dont have gear so they cannot complete, and yes the finding things missions come after you beat those npcs, so if they dont complete the 1st to 2nd mission how can he jump to the 3rd.



lionblades -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/22/2014 11:15:37)

^Did you even read my previous posts:
quote:

You have 100 battles of NPC per day which is 3k per day, PvP battles, and Missions that dont need PvP (which gives you around 50k excluding the recent lionhart missions). What more do you want?
I had enough credits for my L25 alt to class change and that really says something about how they can't "afford" it.

If your high level and still lacking credits to get at least 1 full gear there is something very wrong. Also, if those players can't even beat a NPC, there is no point they can win in 2vs2. It will be just a big burden to the other partner who actually wants a legit battle.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/22/2014 19:39:01)

I agree with this to a extent but they're aren't the players.

That aside you still wouldn't eliminate the problem that even now the majority of players even at 36-39 clearly have no clue what they're doing and clearly just enter 2v2 hoping there partner is good enough to carry them to victory even when they have all there gear doesn't make them good.

The only way around the problem is entering a novice intermediate and pro system

novices can only face novices
and so on

Same problem though that enough players always this games problems

Cant fix the game cause there is no significant player base.

player base won't grow till the problems are fixed

vicious circle.



DeathGuard -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/22/2014 20:26:54)

quote:

Instead of matchmaking balance, I thought of some other 2vs2 req. that can help big time.

Requirements for a better 2vs2 experience:

1. Fully upgraded gear (w/o robot) now that you get everything except robot

2. If partner leaves in start or middle of the match. The leaver gets a penalty (you can decide) and the person staying gets no loss.

3. If partner skips when no one is stunned and he/she is not at rage, the other partner can leave without a penalty. No one wants to play with a skipper.

1) You mentioned you get free weapons on the tutorial but lets recall that people tend to like cooler looking weapons and they buy other weapons/armors at lower lvls or medium high levels. Sometimes they buy weapons/armors that have cores included and that costs quite the amount of credits plus equipping cores to current equipment. Some people won't have 1 or 2 weapons at low lvls, sometimes even at lvl cap we can notice sometimes people doesn't has a gun, aux or both.
Also not all have the necessary credits to upgrade their equipment because they maybe lost more fights than they won and that's a credit deficit.

2)This is one of the things that the base coding probably couldn't permit. Also loses can't no longer be seen by your foe so this wouldn't be too necessary in my opinion.

3) Sometimes people who skip gets lag, either the server's countdown trascends faster and lags out and the player can't play its turn. Other time players skip on purpose or strategic purposes. They are several cases. If the penalty you're talking about is a loss, it wouldn't change nothing. Loses can't be seen so it wouldn't made sense if one loss was added to your record and if you were the only one who could see it. At least in my case I don't care about my losses quantity.



lionblades -> RE: 2vs2 suggestion (7/24/2014 18:03:39)

@DeathGuard

quote:

not all have the necessary credits to upgrade their equipment because they maybe lost more fights than they won and that's a credit deficit

1) First, losing does award 20 credits so you’re still earning credits. Also, you earn EXP at a slower rate losing which means more chances before leveling to upgrade AND considering I also mentioned outside credits sources you won't be at a credit deficit. Also, if a player is actually going to sell his aux and gun for a cool weapon, that is totally their own fault. The Devs can give out a ton of credit sources, but it won't do anything if the player w/o gear won't utilize them correctly. That's totally their own fault and no one else should be burdened by it. The old proverb you can give a horse food and water, but if the horse won't eat or drink, it's hopeless holds true to this situation. It's up to the horse. Likewise, it’s up to the player. I said this before: You have 100 battles of NPC per day which is 3k per day, PvP battles, and Missions that don’t need PvP (and those give you around 50k excluding the recent lionhart missions). If they sold gear there is plenty of ways to get back the credits needed, and varium is the shortcut method but not needed. Also in case if the player can't even beat any NPC at their level range, he/she will obviously have no chance at 2vs2 and is obviously going to be a burden to the partner who has gear.
quote:

base coding probably couldn't permit.

That's really up to the actual ED coders
quote:

Other time players skip on purpose or strategic purposes

Skipping on purpose is basically trolling which is bannable. Besides the "lag"/DC, Players should only skip for strategy when someone is stunned or at rage and want a better attack. I already accounted for this in my suggestion. Also, your loss viewpoint is subjective. Some other players including myself believe wins/losses are still motivation (better ratios) that he/she can see which does matter to some. It's discouraging to get losses that you don't deserve. ED still record losses, albeit only you see them, but you do still see them.



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