robot adjustments balanceing

robot adjustments balanceing (Full Version)

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suboto -> robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 13:43:27)
My threads about the balanceing. Topics about varium/ non varium are not allowed . Heres what i see that needs rebalanceing. To improve balance would to equal the overall damage for every robot. Core balance will be also improved to set with the balanced scale if needed. Infernal Android 150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg Infernal Overload Deals 85% base damage, increasing by 5% each round in battle (130% cap)~~> deals 85% base damage increases by 5% every round in battle (120% cap) to provent this core from being oped nerfing it by 10% Assault Bot 150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Cleanse Reduces 65% of all debuff effects on a target Azrael's Borg 160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Heart Attack Reduces 65% of all buff effects on an enemy deals 85% of damage when this is used Baby Yeti yeti's would improve from 170~180~190dmg 160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) Chomp! Temporarily disables target's auxiliary and sidearm Baby Yeti Warrior yeti's would improve from 170~180~190dmg to keep the evolution alive the yetis would work like this 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40 Chomp! Temporarily disables target's auxiliary and sidearm deals 85% of damage when this is used Bio Borg 160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Thorns Reflects 50% of melee damage back at your attacke Blood Hawk 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Armor Annihilator Destroy the target's armor for 3 turns; removes bonus defenses and prevents use of Armor Cores. deals 85% of damage when this is used. Black Abyss Bot 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Necrosis Spit acid on your enemy, lowering their defenses by an increasing amount for 3 turns. deals 85% of damage when this is used Botanical Hazard 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg Poison Spores Inflicts 60% of your Robot's damage as poison over 4 turns. inflicts 55% of robots damage as poison over 4 turns. To provent this core from being oped a nerf of 5% Electro Bunny Bot 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg Color Blast Blast the enemy with pastel paint; egg missiles will rain upon the target if they strike 85% damage Gamma Bot 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg Gamma Fire Nuclear-powered assault! 85% damage gains 5% per round max 100% damage. To provent this core from being oped adding the 85%~>100% 5% per round capping at 100% would balance it out but keeping it the same overall effect. Lionhart's Avatar 190 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) Lionhart's Roar Grants 50% Rage to all allies Pyro Fly 150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~~>190dmg Infernal Swarm Randomly disables one of your target's 3 highest level skills for the rest of the battle deals 85% of damage Botanical Borg 170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~~>190dmg Spore Bombardment Launch a barrage of explosive spores. Deals 90% damage if it hits multiple targets. To provent this from being oped it will deal 85% dmg to multiple targets

Remorse -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 14:55:05)
Supported, The power creep from robot promos is a issue for balance.

Mother1 -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:27:38)
Not supported. If all robots were meant to be the same than they would have made it so their specials could be shared upon the start of omega along with doing this. Not to mention doing this would also destroy variety among bots just like Omega making all weapons the same did to destroy variety among gear.

Remorse -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:31:20)
^ Well I guess bots with slightly more powerful effects could have say slightly lower damage. But as it is their is huge gap between the promo bots and others, You talk about variety, but if every new promo bot they make outperforms the next in an endless powercreep cycle then their will be no bot variety. Here is a good video on the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw The smart game developer team that made that video call this sort of issue a "time bomb" It also highlights how this issue can lead people to quit. The video also highlight incomprebles, this is what the game should be focusing on in terms of core and skill creation.

Ranloth -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:41:24)
I'm perfectly fine with using the new Bot for +190 damage and Black Abyss for +170 damage, because it boils down to the different ability - which again, means I'd have to tweak my build and possibly use it in a different PvP mode. I don't see the power creep affecting me in any way, because I'm getting two entirely different skills - one is an offensive debuff thus less damage (and it works even better in 2v2), and other is a defensive debuff thus more damage. Same with Botanical Hazard - although it's ineffective at my level due to many players having high HP, at which Poison is ineffective. There is no point in making all Bots the same and re-balancing the cores to work with it, if you can have different damage ranges and have cores balanced off that. End result? Variety in damage compensated by abilities. There is no power creep, unless players look at pure damage and ignore the ability entirely. If older Bots need to be buffed, suggest so and be reasonable with it. This is exactly what was done towards the end of Delta with Primary weapons - some had more damage than the others, but compensated in having less stats & vice versa. Bots are no different.

Mother1 -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:48:21)
@ remorse There will also be no variety if we make everything the same which has already been proven with the making of omega. Before omega we had to choose what weapons would work best with what build which involved a thought process in which a form of variety was made. However once omega came out and made everything the same that thought process went away and most went for what weapons had/has the best cores. What is to stop the same thing from happening here if we make all robot damage base wise the same? Do I promote them making promo's that can outperform each other? By all means no I don't. Personally I think the need to adjust the base damage accordingly to how powerful the effect is of the robot for better balance without crippling variety among bots in the process. However doing this will just as I pointed out make users go for whatever robot has the most powerful effect due to them not being the same and that right there also cripples variety among items.

Remorse -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:49:33)
@ Trans So you are saying their is no power creep between the abyss bots and the currents ones, and thats fine, I can agree with that because the specials are different and can be stronger. the time difference between these promos is not large so of coarse the powercreep would be either minor or unnoticeable. But almost every other bot before the abyss bot would be considered underpowered in base damage because of the power creep from the new promos. How is a bot that does 150, such as the assault bot gonna compete with that... It just means that focus builds can't use these older robots if they wish to compete in terms of damage with focus builds with the newer robots. And this is how it harms variety. @ Mother Of coarse their should be differences in robot base damage when accounting their special, but that is not the issue I think suboto is trying to point out, he is trying to point out power creep and it is pretty obvious. What I was agreeing to was the concept of removing the power creep.

Ranloth -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 15:56:16)
Uh... I was comparing Black Abyss with Katherax, the damage difference and ability. Please don't put words in my mouth, since I haven't mentioned any power creep vs. older Bots. quote: If older Bots need to be buffed, suggest so and be reasonable with it. This section exists for a reason. I've seen very little threads even bringing up older Bots having less damage than the newer ones. Was mentioned around the Forums in general, but never as a balance issue. As long as you can justify why older Bots need a buff, to match the likes of recent +170 damage and so, feel free to create your own thread explaining it in more detail (since this one is about standardization). Things aren't always changed "just because", but perhaps because it was never an issue - in this case, Bot damage - so why change something that was okay in the first place? You mention it's not okay, and I can see why, so why not go ahead and suggest it? By suggesting it, you will also be "enforcing" a form of standardization, whilst keeping the Bot variety in terms of damage vs. ability, just like it is now - which there isn't an issue with. You also mentioned older vs. newer Bots - perhaps the "standards" for Bot damage went up and older Bots ended up omitted due to the lack of need to change them - since no one ever brought it up as an issue either. then again, I'm fine with IA being considerably weaker due to its special ability -- unless it was capped at 120%, then base damage could go up

suboto -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 17:50:30)
Power creep is deadly currently in robots. Cores should be the main difference not dmg

Mother1 -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 18:42:47)
@ suboto There also needs to be a trade off between power and effect which has been worked into the game when it comes to items with locked cores. Your suggestion of making all offensive base power the same in the attempt to stop power creep will destroy that as well. While I agree some older robots could use a buff, however said buffs and changes to all robots need to work based on how powerful their effects are so there will be balance between the normal attack and core special. Take the lionhart bot for example. Yes it has a high base damage however special isn't offensive based and in some cases worthless depending on the fight. So the gain and drawback work together in this case. We need to work robots by that standard so there will always be a trade off between the two. Otherwise some bots will still remain used, others will become unused, and a few will become even more powerful due to the nature of their effects.

suboto -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 19:23:50)
I just wish i could try a 190dmg robot i feel variety of the 190dmg robot is too small and needs to be more wide range an example of a robot in dire need of 190 assault bot.

Exploding Penguin -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/20/2014 19:48:28)
Not supported to equalize all their damage; -Lionhart bots are trash. Their only redeeming factor is in 2v2 (in which case the rage gain should be nerfed if used on teammates as well), and that its base damage is abnormally high. -Barely anyone uses yeti for a reason. Take away its redeeming factor of having the 2nd highest base damage in the game and you just killed it -Assault bots are mainly gotten for their special: cleanse. It doesn't really need a damage buff (maybe +10, but not much more), but rather cleanse should be a bit stronger and completely remove effects like hatchling rush, mark of blood, reduce poison damage, etc... People get bots mostly for their special cores, not for their damage (lionhart and yeti are pretty much the only exception to this). If they do change bots, they should work on the bot specials, not on the damage values.

Remorse -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/21/2014 1:06:52)
@trans I didn't put any words in your mouth, read it agian. I will make an attempt on balancing the older bots when I get home.

kosmo -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/21/2014 4:14:29)
Exploding penguin is right on this, damage is a good way to balance different specials and it cannot be all the same. The point is that all bots were kinda equal before the last one they released, the only power creep was with ranks+infernal android and with the abyss and expecially the hawck being a bit too useful for srnght builds. In any case fixing broken content cannot solve the main problem with broken content being released.

Remorse -> RE: robot adjustments balanceing (9/21/2014 4:17:07)
^ I have made I thread on my idea for robot balance to buff some of the older outdated robots to this new level. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21819152

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