Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (Full Version)

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Exploding Penguin -> Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 2:38:26)

Another tier list because it's been a really long time since my last one. I'm just gonna go over rationale and comments briefly and probably not do it as in-depth as before.

Here are some important things to note before reading the tier list:
-This is subjective and based on opinion. There's reasoning behind it and hopefully my comments will convince you to think the way I did when writing this post, but the tier list is still based on personal experience and thoughts.
-This is mostly based off of levels 35-39 because once you hit 40 balance doesn't matter that much since there's such a variety of players at different ranks. Ranks also skew the balancing system because they aren't equivalent to levels at all but still matter in determining who wins a fight.
-This tier list considers the current meta and FotM picks, meaning classes which go well against the most common builds will naturally be placed higher in the tier list
-Classes in the same tier are about the same. Just because BM is listed before merc, doesn't mean it's better than merc.

Tier list:

God Tier:
Blood Mage
Mercenary

Top Tier:
Cyber Hunter

Mid Tier:
Bounty Hunter
Tech Mage

Plastic Tier:
Tactical Mercenary

Reasoning and Comments:

Blood Mage:

Everyone probably saw this coming. It's no surprise BM is one of the strongest classes right now due to its movepool versatility and the fact that energy parasite by default shuts down tons of builds that would otherwise be counters to BM. Not only does BM have a really good skillset in the current meta which consists mostly of focus builds and builds that have low support, but it also has a high skillcap which opens up possibilities for outplaying many other classes that have low skillcaps, such as BH and TM.

Here are some overview comments:
-Intimidate is a ridiculous skill right now. It deals decent damage, builds rage, costs little energy, and cripples an essential stat. You lose out on almost nothing when using intimidate. It's important to note that strength affects so many skills it's ridiculous. 3 energy drains are affected by it, as well as parasite and debuff on-hit damage, and many cores' damage. Also, strength is without a doubt the most reliable way of dealing consistent damage, which is needed to shred through another popular build in the meta: heal-looping tankier focus builds.
-BM not only has intimidate, it also has 2 skills which gives it really strong coverage against debuffs. Debuffs aren't used as much these days, but it's still nice to have these skills.
-Energy parasite is the whole reason why BM is a god right now. One of the most viable builds for countering BM's lack of instant massive defensive buffs (energy shield costs more energy than matrix, isn't as strong, and lasts a short 3 turns) are high-energy caster builds such as very strong poison abuse builds, caster builds, and high massacre builds, ALL rely on very large energy pools. Just so happens energy parasite decimates these builds. Energy parasite also gives way more energy than any other energy drain (aside from battery backup which is very predictable and has a huge cooldown), zones enemies into consuming their energy quickly or risk losing it and giving tons to the BM, and is very easy to use. With it, you can normally out-sustain many other builds with the same amount of bulk.

Basically, BM stomps the current meta because it can easily deal with most popular builds, and its hardest counter is denied by energy parasite being %-based. It's also not too difficult to use but has a high skillcap so that you can easily outplay others that have the same class/build but are weaker than you skill-based.

Mercenary:

Another really obvious class that everyone knows is super strong right now. With access to one of the best defensive buffs in the game, as well as an amazing strength-based movepool including intimidate and a strength-scaling energy drain with a good conversion %, this class can easily out-damage other offensive-based builds, especially with blood commander. Blood commander is borderline OP. It gives a long-lasting damage steroid which scales nicely with most of merc's skills, AND grants lifesteal to add to the class's already innate bulk. With blood commander active, you can easily out-sustain enemies while shredding them to pieces with consistently high damage. Static smash also drains a good chunk while restoring a decent amount of energy and scales with our favorite stat in the current meta aside from HP: strength.

Comments:
-Intimidate is a god. I don't need to go in-depth about this again.
-Static smash is really strong if you don't get blocked. It's an assimilation on steroids that can easily turn around a fight by taking away half of your opponent's max energy pool and giving you enough to use field medic or another blood commander.
-Blood commander is ridiculous. With it, you out-damage and out-sustain many classes at the same time. This skill is one of the best focus build-shredders in the game. It also doesn't cost too much energy so a single static smash that's well-timed can bring you back into the game.
-Hybrid armor immediately relinquishes any worries about debuffs, and overcompensates very well to cancel out bot skills like necrosis and armor annihilator.

Right now mercenary is extremely strong in the meta because it has access to a kit where, when a player has good energy management, can destroy every other class with good bulk and consistently high damage output. The skillcap isn't quite as high as some other classes, but the base statistics of this class and its movepool is enough to bring it into god tier in the current meta, which focuses on mostly low-support builds and focus builds.

Cyber Hunter

Some of you might be surprised by this. After fiddling with CH a lot recently I confidently put it into top tier, just under the god tier because of two major things:
-EMP grenade
-Low energy costs on essential skills
In a meta that focuses a lot on controlling energy flow in a fight, a class with an energy drain capable of removing 450+ energy in one turn is by default already quite strong. A high-leveled, EMP, which should be run on any focus build CH (where else would you put your skill points in? Shadow arts?), immediately shuts down any class reliant on battery backup, and, if you go first, will disrupt many opponents' routine plans of action. Also, many of your essential skills such as plasma armor, defense matrix, plasma grenade (yes, this is essential because its base damage is actually semi-relevant and pulling off a clutch stun can win games more often than one would think), EMP, and cheap shot. The new static charge which improves with support makes focus builds relevant again, and it's very important to note that it will actually restore really reliable amounts of energy.

Comments:
-I've actually fiddled around mainly with 2 build types, one being glass cannon strength-support (more support than strength) with a massive energy pool and max massacre. With high shadow arts (which is unbelievably viable for once), you can tank out enough hits to stall for max massacre which easily destroys every single focus build, and, when combined with previous attacks, guarantee a kill against 90% of all opponents. This build is unbelievably strong, and you will wreck everybody... except BMs. As stated before, energy parasite ruins that 900-1000 energy pool and, even with static charge (with high support) and a +250 EP from generator/piston punch. Even against regular bulky focus builds, your massacre will do upwards 500 damage.
-The other build I've tried many variants of is focus. It's a no-brainer focus is one of the most viable builds on CH given its ability to heal-loop well and the fact that EMP Grenade is a very effective skill. Out of all the focus builds I've tried, I'd have to say that a wrist-blade moderate cheap shot build is the best. In the current meta, no one will actually debuff you, so 2-4 levels in plasma armor are all that's needed (mainly to counter caster TMs which aren't even that common anymore, and you can deal with them anyways with EMP grenade). This cheap shot build is one of the best focus build killers in ED. With access to a ridiculously strong energy drain which shuts down everyone but *sigh* BMs (and somewhat mercs) and a skill which crits very reliably while not even costing that much energy, as well as more heal-looping capabilities than most other focus builds, you will almost always win. Problem with this build is you get hard-countered by consistent-damage classes with no debuffs, which is pretty much strength-based BM and Merc. Hmm, I wonder why they're god tier now?
-CH has one of the higher skill caps in the game, probably on par with BM if not higher. Timing your EMP grenade and static charge are essential, and keeping control of energy flow is what will win you games with CH.


Conclusively, CH is really strong right now because it has amazing control of the energy flow in a battle. It also does what most other focus builds do, but better. Your base stats will outclass pretty much every build type save for your hard counters. The only problem is if you play against a hard counter you have almost a 0% chance of winning unless your opponent doesn't know how to play at all.

Bounty Hunter

Some people would have expected this to be higher than CH, but I have my reasons for sticking this class into the mid-lower tier. Right now BH has really poor energy flow control and its strategy is very easy to read. The only thing it really has going for it is that smokescreen innately increases the BH's block rate, which is really helpful in a meta full of strength-based builds. The class also has consistent damage output with lifesteal, but aside from that it really isn't that great overall, mainly because static grenade is weak...very weak.

Comments:
-Focus BH is probably one of the most viable builds as of now. However, your energy control is one of the worst as while your drain is very effective and reliable, your energy regain is complete trash. Once you run out of energy you're probably done using any skills unless you have generator or piston punch. This makes focus BH very predictable and easy to zone into sticky situations; all you have to do is survive the smokescreen and/or mark of blood burst damage that happens in the first 3-4 turns, then you by default should win the fight if you aren't too low by then
-Damage-focused BH is another build which is kinda used often in the current meta. However, you just get intimidated and shielded against which shuts down smokescreen and mark of blood, and you're stuck in the same position as with focus builds; You don't deal particularly ridiculous damage and you don't have any sustain.
-Max EMP from CH = insta-gg over 3/4 of the time.

BH isn't that strong right now because its energy control is very poor, is easily predictable, and the class itself gets shut down if it doesn't do anything in the first few turns while smoke/mark of blood are active. If BH gets a really strong start you can't do much about it, but this is easily prevented with cautionary defensive buffs and premature heals as well as well-placed energy drains. Viable BH builds are outclassed by other class's parallel build types winning with a BH is mostly based off of being higher level or playing against bad players.

Tech Mage

In the current meta, this class doesn't do much. It can be annoying if you don't know how to play against it or make a really bad build with lots of vulnerabilities to exploit, but a solid build will be able to beat any TM consistently. The problem with TM is that after the cooldown nerf on battery backup, the class itself just isn't viable anymore. Your energy control isn't that strong because your drain is weak, and even though you regain tons of energy parasite, EMP grenade, and even static smash (to an extent) shuts you down almost instantly after you recharge your energy pool. TM also has a really bad skill tree in the current meta because it revolves heavily around consuming energy, which is easily stopped by a smart opponent who times their drains correctly. Additionally, TM can't even reliably deal with meta focus builds because it lacks built-in sustain. It has really good defensive buffs, but these don't do anything in a meta where debuffs are useless.

-Your caster skill tree can do one of two things: Stomp really bad builds or get destroyed by good ones. If your opponent makes a build with really easy holes to exploit, then a caster skill tree will destroy them. Any good player with a good build knows how to deal with this and will wreck you, though.
-Your dex caster build is heavily reliant on blocks to win in fights against consistent-damage strength builds like merc. Relying on luck is never a good idea IMO.
-Your defensive buffs don't do much in the current meta. Mixed damage focus BHs will just work around your matrix if you use it to counter their smoke.
-Your main damage skills, malfunction and bludgeon, are only decent at best. Bludgeon isn't that reliable because it only deals a small amount of bonus damage but has a moderate cooldown, and malfunction is a debuff which has already been stated to be useless.
-Battery backup is really predictable. With energy flow being in the meta and cooldown counting being an essential strategy to correspond with this, any TM is easy to read and is extremely vulnerable to high degrees of counterplay by classes with strong drains such as CH and BM.

Battery backup's cooldown nerf ruined this class. It used to be able to do something by just forcing tons of energy regeneration to the point where not even energy drains could stop it, but that period of time is over. Now TM is just a predictable class that loses to most builds and players who know what they're doing. However, TM is still a decent class at exploiting weaknesses, and offers up some room for outplaying bad or less-skilled opponents.

Tactical Mercenary

The plastic tier civilian. We all saw this coming. TLM offers NOTHING noteworthy in the current meta aside from poison damage that shreds through focus builds. However, current focus builds rely heavily on spamming heal looping which alleviates poison damage and innately counters TLM, not to mention that energy drains shut down battery backup. Compared to TM, TLM is even weaker in terms of energy regain and overall control because you don't even have a reliable drain, and your energy regain is absolutely horrid. Unless you're good at cooldown counting and reading opponents, you're better off not even using battery backup because all it will do is give your opponent energy. Here are some things TLM does that makes it so bad:

Comments:
-TLM has no damage
-TLM has bad defensive buffs in the current meta. Blood shield is somewhat reliable but since it costs health it can often be played around easily
-TLM has weak sustain
-TLM has the worst energy flow control in the game as of now
-Even really bad players can counterplay and exploit TLM's weaknesses because they're so obvious: Most energy drains are on 3-4 turn cooldowns but battery backup is on a 5-turn one.
-Even worse, TLM is heavily energy-reliant for any damage that it could actually deal, and having battery backup as its only way of regaining energy doesn't help this case
-I almost forgot static smash existed

Before TLM was really good at tanking and being the most ridiculous heal-looping god in the game, with a reliable escape heal in rage frenzy if you got caught in an unpredictable sticky situation. However, the fact that it deals no damage so lifesteals negate anything TLMs do, as well as its poor control over energy flow and the class's overall predictability make it completely useless.


Feel free to leave comments, questions, your own ideas, etc... but please keep in mind that, as stated before, this is completely subjective and based off of personal experience and opinion.




FrostWolv -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 5:39:46)

nice post Penguin ... it really has a nice review on current meta .... I enjoyed reading it.


Since I am a 5-f Cyber Hunter and do usually 2v2 this is my tier-list for 2v2 at level 40:-

1. BM and Merc :

why? BM and Merc ... same reason as you stated as both have great nukes, energy control and intimidate. BM assist his ally with mark of blood while Merc changes the flow of game with his Hybrid armor even if necrosis or armor annihilator is used to counter.

2. Tech Mage:

not dex mages ... i am talking about strength and 5-f TM. Dex TM being too much predictable is countered accordingly. TM still have a nuke skill spammed by TM in 2v2 called bludgeon. Their assimilation benefits the most in 2v2 as it drain and takes energy, increases rage gain and deals (low) damage. Their assistance of providing Energy Battery to their ally is what makes them good for 2v2.

3.Hunters-
Bounty and Cyber are on the third spot due to lack of nuke skills ... in current meta, nuke is great for 2v2.

Hunters seen in 2v2 :- either str Hunters with no support or 5-f hunters

their single target nuke skill is only stun/plasma grenade whose damage if compared to other nukes is low (which is ok because these have 30% to stun)

It maybe weird to see them together but in 2v2 they share a common place. Bounty hunter if gets allied by class that has nukes proves to be better than CH as their mark of blood plays an important role i.e. if a match is meant to end fast then BH have a superior advantage than a CH.
Cyber gets better than BH if the game delays and their energy gain from Static Charge makes opponent get frustrated as the new SC deals damage, gains fixed energy, increases rage gain which is vital for 2v2.


4.Tactical Merc:-

Build often seen in 2v2:- 5f TLM or str TLM (saw support TLM once .. )

what makes this class left behind in this current meta is lack of nuke skill, timing poison skill ... poison being their only great skills doesn't shows much impact in 2v2 because of heals which is always spammed in 2v2 by everyone. TLM in 2v2 is totally a supporting class ... all they do is provide assistance put shields on and give energy. If in 2v2 TLM match turns 1v1 in which TLM is left on either side, then their supporting ability doesn't aid then to win the fight.






Bionic Bear -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 14:18:33)

I actually don't think that TLM is that bad. I switched from TLM (plastic tier) to BM (god tier), and immediately I wanted my battery backup back.
With TLM you pretty much have to use a robot, and you also have to be clever in the way you use your moves. Indeed there is no nuke skills, but do you really need one? The main point of TLM is to whittle down your enemy's health, then smash them with your robot rage. Keeping a level one surgical strike to drain their rage helps also. I realized all this after I switched, of course, since I thought TLM was garbage while I used it, although I probably had an 80-90% win rate.




Exploding Penguin -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 15:05:44)

^The problem with TLM is that there are almost no skills which actually deal any damage. Field commander is near useless and poison grenade is your only damage skill, which costs a lot of energy and can be cured with field medic. TLM as a class itself isn't terribly bad, but in the current meta where lifesteal is one of the most common ways of healing, the chip damage it deals every turn is almost 100% negated by classes like BHs.

Additionally, battery backup has its perks but overall energy parasite is a lot more flexible and simply better. If you're playing against mediocre opponents they will let themselves get trapped by battery backup, especially with a poison build that poisons them 2 times over a fight, but good players will try and remove all your energy as fast as possible to make battery backup an easier force to deal with.

If even TMs are having problems holding onto their energy so they can use skills in the current meta, and TLM has somewhat similar energy costs on its essential skills, then TLM is definitely gonna be having a really hard time.

@Frostwolv: I don't play much 2v2 these days but I'd put CH a bit higher, just because while it lacks good burst skills the utility it brings to 2v2 is amazing. One EMP on the first turn already shuts down an enemy, and defense matrix is inexpensive and efficient. Debuffs are a bit more useful in 2v2, especially if you drain all of your opponent's energy so they can't shield. CH's consistent damage isn't that great, but EMP grenade plays a huge role in stalling fights out for you to heal loop with static charge's amazing energy restoration, and draining their energy also shuts down burst skills and forces them to drain energy.

Additionally, CH is a class that needs little energy to do what it does best. If you drain a ton of their energy, they drain yours, and you use static charge, you've essentially not gained much but traded energy (you both lost energy). This by default will already win you fights against BHs and other energy-dependent classes like TLM. A single static charge makes you relevant again and people will not want to ignore you because you can drain 3/4 of their max energy pool every 4 turns.




Bionic Bear -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 18:38:20)

quote:

and other energy-dependent classes like TLM

I fail to see how TLM is at all energy-dependent, seeing as how their skills are pretty much trash. Robot is the damage source (or your primary if you're a str build). You don't even have to use poison. Just have a decently high heal and some defense buffs.
In any case you still have to be smart with your use of battery backup. Wait for them to drain your energy, then use it immediately afterward. I'm not sure how removing your energy as fast as possible makes dealing with batter backup easier. Seems to me it'd be harder, if anything, now that you've spent your drain.




Exploding Penguin -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/26/2014 20:07:35)

quote:

I fail to see how TLM is at all energy-dependent, seeing as how their skills are pretty much trash. Robot is the damage source (or your primary if you're a str build). You don't even have to use poison.


Every class can have their robot as their main damage source, and some even scale better with tech investment than TLM does.

quote:

Just have a decently high heal and some defense buffs.


Any focus build can do this, and some classes have better defensive buffs than TLM

quote:

In any case you still have to be smart with your use of battery backup. Wait for them to drain your energy, then use it immediately afterward. I'm not sure how removing your energy as fast as possible makes dealing with batter backup easier. Seems to me it'd be harder, if anything, now that you've spent your drain.


Also, in any case, your opponent can be smart with their use of energy drains. I personally found it better to try and keep the enemy's energy pool as low as possible unless you intentionally want to drain large amounts with parasite because what ends up happening is they have 270 energy and pose no threat, then they use battery backup and you're screwed because CH is the only class which can deal with that huge 600+ energy pool in that situation, and then they poison you and field medic.

Basically, TLM focus is a fairly decent build an all, but almost every other class's focus build does what TLM does but better.




Variation -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/27/2014 20:41:59)

I would actually swap out Mercenary from the God Tier and replace it with Tech Mage. I made my rank 60 alt a Tech Mage and it's ridiculously powerful. So far it's undefeated versus 5 focus Mercenaries and Blood Mages.

Mercenary seems like an amazing class with the skills they have access to, but in PvP it's really not that good. Blood Commander is made next to useless with Azrael's Torment/Heart Attack and if your opponent has access to those cores it isn't even worth casting, the rage advantage you give them in that scenario is almost never worth it. Hybrid Armor is a really decent buff, but many Mercenaries can't even utilize it correctly. I absolutely love when a Mercenary casts Hybrid Armor on the first turn, they will not recover from the rage advantage they've given me, and every case where a Mercenary has done that in a battle versus me they've lost. Static Smash is blockable and the number one reason why I don't even bother with Mercenary these days. Static Smash being blocked is what I call a % abuser. If you're versus a good opponent and it gets blocked you'll need some luck to pull off a victory (note: I said "good opponent," it's pretty easy to win if it gets blocked against someone inexperienced). I played as a Mercenary for quite a bit at level 40 and I only averaged about 95% in 1v1 and 80% in 2v2. As all other classes except Tactical Mercenary I've averaged 97%+ in 1v1, and 90%+ in 2v2. It's hard for me to accept anything lower than 90% in 2v2 and since as a Mercenary I averaged 10% less than that, I just couldn't do it. I could do everything correct as a Mercenary and still lose because someone with less dexterity than me blocked my Static Smash. I have some balance suggestions for Mercenary, but haven't gotten around to posting them yet, and I won't hijack this thread with them.

Back to Tech Mage. The build I'm using on my alt is a 5 focus tank support build. I'm doing amazing with it, and so far I've beaten every rank 50+ Blood Mage that I've been put up against. After about a day of using the build I asked ConQrR if I could challenge him to go against someone who is an EpicDuel strategist(like me :D), and I beat him with little trouble. Tech Mage is my original class and playing it recently made me remember just how good I am at playing it. Tech Mage is even better at deceiving your opponents (my favorite strategy) than Bounty Hunter is, and that's simply amazing. The only class that has put up good fights with my alt so far are good Cyber Hunters. The only Cyber Hunter to actually beat my Tech Mage build however, is ConQrR's rank 60 alt (4-2 overall vs that account).

So with that being said, here is my version of your Tier List.

God Tier:
Blood Mage(for closely the same reasons you've stated).

Tech Mage - Amazingly good at deceiving your opponents (my main reason), great energy control, good defensive buffs, and the perfect stall class.

Top Tier:
Cyber Hunter - they actually have amazing energy control, and pretty stable defensive buffs. A good, and I don't mean average Cyber Hunter can put up some pretty good fights.

Bounty Hunter - Second best class at deceiving your opponents, alright energy control, and pretty decent defensive buffs (Reflex Boost/Energy Shield synergize very well with support).

Mercenary - Amazing energy control when Static Smash doesn't get blocked, most of the skills synergize well with dexterity/strength oriented builds, and pretty much the perfect defensive buff.

Plastic Tier:
Tactical Mercenary - The class is playable, I've played it before, but it's extremely limited. You're forced into a club to use an energy draining skill, that's not only blockable, but requires a club to use. I will say from my experience with Tactical Mercenary, is that five focus tank poison builds can put up some pretty good fights. The defensive buffs on this class are alright, but Blood Shield can be pretty risky to use sometimes.

@Thread:
This was a pretty decent thread and I hope more players can share their experiences with the current 6 classes in EpicDuel.




Exploding Penguin -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 0:34:55)

quote:

Mercenary seems like an amazing class with the skills they have access to, but in PvP it's really not that good. Blood Commander is made next to useless with Azrael's Torment/Heart Attack and if your opponent has access to those cores it isn't even worth casting, the rage advantage you give them in that scenario is almost never worth it


I would have to disagree. You spend somewhere around the same amount of energy to use a high-level blood commander as you would azrael's torment, and azrael's torment deals reduced damage while not even completely alleviating the blood commander buff. It also puts your aux on cooldown. I can see heart attack being a very direct counter, but literally no one runs that bot anymore because it's outclassed by most other robots with higher base damages.

quote:

Tech Mage - Amazingly good at deceiving your opponents (my main reason), great energy control, good defensive buffs, and the perfect stall class.

A smart and skilled player can utilize any class to outplay their opponents. I fail to see how TM is better at it than other classes. It also doesn't have great energy control, but it does have good energy restoration, which makes it really quirky because TM's drain values are absolute trash and are actually only countered by its own skill: battery backup.

I find it hard to solidly place TM into a specific tier because it's mostly hit-or-miss with its matchups: either you stomp your opponent or you have a hard time all game getting zoned by something like max EMP CH. Mercenary, on the other hand, has favorable matchups all-around and is really only countered by supreme dex-abuse builds which aren't that common at all these days because focus builds simply destroy them through outsustaining. Maybe a lot of people don't play merc well, but based off of numbers I would say there's no reason a Blood commander merc would ever lose to a TM. All the merc has to do is only use energy on blood commander and field medic and literally no other skills aside from a possible hybrid armor, and even getting blocked once on static smash probably wouldn't be the end of him because a TM assimilation cannot stop his lifesteal + field medic sustain.

I would personally say BM and CH are the best classes for outplay mechanics; it's just that CH focus builds are really uncommon now so you don't get to see much of them, and barely any BMs actually know how to play really well and only win because almost all their matchups are favorable so it's a rare case to see a supreme BM or CH win through raw outplay.




Xendran -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 7:09:48)

The balance of this game oscillates so hard it's crazy.
Can you imagine a while back saying that Intimidate and Energy Parasite are some of the best skills in the game and that Tac Merc is the worst class?




Variation -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 8:19:59)

@Exploding Penguin:
Yes I spend energy to make their Blood Commander garbage. There isn't any good reason not to when you not only get a rage advantage, but you hit their offensive buff very hard. Blood Commander is no doubt the most overrated skill in the game. It's extremely easy to counter and it definitely doesn't make Mercenary the strongest class in the game like some players say it does.

As for this
quote:

Maybe a lot of people don't play merc well, but based off of numbers I would say there's no reason a Blood commander merc would ever lose to a TM.

Yes many players simply fail at playing Mercenary. I've faced some good BC Mercs (urFEAR and KR3P4X when they played as one) and beat them both. Like I've said before I'm undefeated against BC Mercs that includes my alt Tech Mage. While my Tech Mage can't beat them as easily as my Blood Mage, I still wipe the floor with them on the TM. BC Mercs are one of the easiest builds I face in 1v1, no matter what class I'm playing as. It's quite astonishing that so much players have trouble with them when there are multiple ways to counter them. Maybe that is a just a sign that players just refuse to invest time into strategies. They would rather attack balance instead of attacking their strategies, that's very typical of the EpicDuel community sadly.

Cyber Hunters are pretty strong at the time, but I have very little trouble with them on my BM(undefeated versus them on my BM). On my TM the only CH I've lost to like I've said is ConQrR's alt which I'm 4-2 overall against. So far in 1v1 he's my only threat on my TM. Everyone else, including rank 50+ Blood Mages I completely destroy. Good Cyber Hunters are really, really fun to play against. Sadly if EMP were to be overnerfed I doubt they would be as fun. I love the challenge good Cyber Hunters present with an energy nuke, and if EMP were to be overnerfed I would lose out on that good enjoyment.

EDIT: @Xendran: Yes it's pretty crazy. Intimidate is decent because all of the strength builds running around and its energy cost. Energy Parasite is alright, and can be very annoying sometimes in late-game (mostly for the caster if you need to steal more energy to prevent a heal, it can however annoy the opponent somewhat).




ConQrR -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 12:06:43)

God Tier:
Blood Mage

Top Tier:
Tech Mage
Cyber Hunter

Mid Tier:
Mercenary
Bounty Hunter

Plastic Tier:
Tactical Mercenary

I have to say mercenary never become a trouble for me. I can beat them easily most of the time. Only exception here 1-2 good players caused some troubles or couple of loses.

After latest balance changes bounty hunter go down to next tier.

Tech Mage and Cyber Hunter can be a God tier with an expeirnced player. Like Variation said he beat me with his alt couple of times. (Im a Bm and he is TM).




Variation -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 16:53:00)

^That's exactly my reasoning for not putting it in God Tier. They aren't problematic for me in PvP at all, in fact all other classes except Tactical Mercenary seem to be more of a challenge than them. I do agree with you that Tech Mages and Cyber Hunters are stronger than Mercenaries and this is based off of pure PvP experience at level 40. I believe what causes the immediate judgement that Mercenaries are one of the strongest is their skill tree, which consists of the overrated skill named Blood Commander. I've seen so many players not only in the forums, but in-game that absolutely insist Blood Commander is OP or borderline OP. I've explained the counters to this skill many, many times to players, but most of them just block it out with the refusal to change their strategies mentality. I've seen players say BC Mercs counter just about every BM build, but they can't explain to me how I'm 100% versus them. Mercenary isn't a bad class, but it certainly isn't on the same level as Blood Mage, Tech Mage, and Cyber Hunter.

This is a great thread because it allows players of all kinds to discuss how they feel the classes are relative to each other. I've extensively used all 6 classes in 2v2, so I have a pretty good understanding of how they all work. This is just my opinion which has been formulated from not only playing as all of the classes, but also from observing other players that play as these classes in PvP.




Wootz -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 17:33:44)

My time is up.

God tier;
Blood Mage

Top tier:
Cyber Hunter
Tech Mage

Mid tier:
Mercenary
Bounty Hunter

Garbage tier:
Tactical Mercenary

Blood Mages counter most of the usually seen builds just by their utility skills while having nuke skills in the skill tree aswell. Both utility and damage skills have great synergy between them, so they are able to prevail over most other players if the player is somewhat experienced in their match ups.

Cyber Hunters are my God tier potential list because they are still able to pull off very versatile builds and overcome literally everything, aslong as you know how to counterplay againts your opponent. Their Energy control is simply amaizing and the classes skills have great synergy between them. The only thing lacking for the class are a few levels worth of stats and it would become virtually unkillable (talk about potential here). Heck, I even use Shadow Arts with my 5F Dagger build. It actually provides great ammount of sustain againts glass cannom builds, plus its easy and cheap.

Tech Mages, well. They have great nuke skills, good defensive abilities and their 5F builds are very strong. If you manage to pull off a 5F build with the nuke skills and some smart plays you can beat anything. The problem is that the class is underplayed in higher levels of plays where it needs more thought out actions in order to win.

Bounty Hunters, not on the top of the food chain anymore. The smoke screen and Massacre debuff killed its initial sustain. Higher ranked players can still do great things with the usual Strenght build, but it is a less versatile build then it has ever been. They got an alright Energy drain, but lack in the regen department. Also, stat investing wise, it is hard to actually choose between the stats as per one advantage, you get five weaknesses which aren't easily covered in the current balance system.

Mercenaries are all around a great class to use. Their skill tree covers both offensive and defensive abilities quite well, aswell as having a great Energy controlling move. Most Mercenaries go with the Blood Commander build route which has an okay result in PvP. Especially againts non-experienced players, but their 5F builds are a lot stronger. Those builds can havr huge defensive capabilities while providing a great damage output, aswell. In my opinion, if this typr of build gets utilizied in a Flavour of the month build it would best the best of Blood Mages.

Tactical Mercenaries. Lack of an all around skill tree that most classes have. Their sustain has become poor because of how the classes skills work. Although a heavy tank build with 5F and Toxic grenade has a shot at overcomming the other classes it has one big weakness. It is heavily Energy dependent as it involves looping of the classes abilities for a long time in order to win, for which their kit just doesn't approve off. High Energy costs, poor drain and Reroute with such long cooldown just doesn't stack up in a good way. In my opinion, this class needs the same knowledge of its use as the Cyber Hunters, as they both have a higher skill cap.

The problem that I find with this is that if you balance one part of a class in order for it to become balanced you would need to balance the same part for the other class. Which then would open more balance exploits ans just go in an endless loop. In my mind, all skills and stats need a complete overhaul of their numbers and uses in order to receive a more balanced games.





Exploding Penguin -> RE: Tier List w/ Brief Explanations 10/25 (10/28/2014 19:47:33)

Forgot to mention this in my last reply

quote:

This is mostly based off of levels 35-39 because once you hit 40 balance doesn't matter that much since there's such a variety of players at different ranks. Ranks also skew the balancing system because they aren't equivalent to levels at all but still matter in determining who wins a fight.


Of course level 40s with ranks pubstomp BC mercs. I would say that the suggested tier lists with merc in mid tier are probably most accurate for level 40, but as of now level 35-39 focus builds can't do much to blood commander mercs.




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