=OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (Full Version)

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Skurge -> =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 17:04:28)

Greetings! As the Seventh PvP Tournament has come to an end, it's time to hear your thoughts and feedback for our next tournament!

But first, let's take a look at the updated Hall of Fame!



=OS FORUM TOURNAMENT HALL OF FAME=

quote:

ICE TOURNAMENT
1st Place = Lord Beck
Runner Up = DeathGuard

SHADOW TOURNAMENT
1st Place = The Finnish Phoenix
Runner Up = Lord Beck

FIRE TOURNAMENT
1st Place = Clintonian
Runner Up = Axel459

EARTH TOURNAMENT
1st Place = The Finnish Phoenix
Runner Up = Clintonian

WATER TOURNAMENT
1st Place = The Finnish Phoenix
Runner Up = Gorillo Titan

ENERGY TOURNAMENT
1st Place = The Jop
Runner Up = clintonian

NEUTRAL TOURNAMENT
1st Place Spots = The Finnish Phoenix & Igneous




Huzzah! Now that our winners have been recognized for their efforts and victories, let's hear some feedback!

Here are some prompts:

What did you like the most about this tournament?

What did you not like as much about this tournament?

What did you think of the double-elimination style bracket? Good? Bad? Confusing?

What did you think of the time limit for the duels?

Is there anything you would change about the tournament setup?

Is there anything you'd like for us to keep doing?


Feel free to address anything else about the tournament as well. Thank you!


Before making a post, please keep this in mind.

quote:

Constructive Criticism

  • What is it?
    Constructive criticism is being able to process and offer your own thoughts and opinions in order to give courteous and friendly feedback. This is done by explaining what you like and dislike, while at the same time providing feedback that is useful. This is what separates constructive feedback from ranting/complaining and flaming.

  • Does it help? How?
    Yes! Constructive criticism helps because not only are you giving feedback about what you don't like about a quest/event, but you're also giving feedback about what you DID like in the quest. Feedback could include on such topics as statistics, more dialogue, more explanatory cutscenes, more fights - everything that quests or events would normally include. This gives the staff a better idea on future improvements.

  • Example of Constructive Criticism:
    "I didn't particularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little disappointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release. That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars DF have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, DF staff!"

  • Example of Unconstructive Criticism:
    "I didn't like this war at all. What were the staff thinking? The items in the shop were ugly, overpriced and were bugged!! No cutscene? That was never done before and it is not how it should be done ever. Seriously, doesn't the staff ever listen to us?! The boss fight was too hard and took forever to beat :( And there was no sound. I dont think the staff even care anymore. Best war ever /sarcasm I hate this game D:<!"


    • Upcoming Tournaments and future plans for the OverSoul GD!

    If you've been keeping track of the previous tournaments, you may realize that our next one is going to be our last. Because Light is probably the trickiest element to work with, I would really like the community's input on some of the restrictions or bans which may (or may not!) take place. After thorough discussions with the Moderators and ArchKnights, we decided to possibly ban characters like Queen Aegea, Seraphim of Ver, Founder Knight, and Templar. Due to the fact that light vs. light matches can take up to an hour (or more), we really wanted to ban characters that can utilize Greater Heal along with large amounts of defense - prolonging games to unnecessary amounts of time. That being said, Greater Heal will be banned in CC entirely, however not all characters which have Greater Heal in their vanilla decks will be restricted (e.g: Sentry Lord). Remember that this is our only chance to discuss this completely and once we've reached a conclusion, there will probably be no changes done afterward. I understand that there may have been some miscommunication in the previous tournament (regarding IronHide/Corruption), so I do not want that to happen again. Feel free to drop by and give us any opinions on our upcoming tournament. :)

    ~Skurge,
    ArchKnight OSGD



    The Jop -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 17:08:37)

    So, what are people's feelings about how the tournament was set up? Did Corruption and luck of the draw dominate the tournament because iron hide CC was banned?



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 20:13:55)

    Free players didn't stand a chance.

    Will legendary light stuff still be rare?



    The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 20:30:02)

    I thought 515-Defend dominated the tournament. xD

    But in seriousness Corruption was definitely a factor and there were players that could've done better if they had 2 (clinton and Elder) but the alternative was Iron Hide dominating the tournament which would have been awful and potentially impossible to penetrate.

    The idea of banning certain characters with Greater Heal but not others is interesting.

    If the concern is duration then Seraphim of Ver is the main offender (3200 heals + 1500 shields = 4700 defence). Battles involving other Light Legends don't tend to be problematically long, but I'll list them in order of their defences anyway. Initially, I thought the issue with Greater Heal was that it wasn't available to free players, but Omni Knight was since released as the first F2P character with it so I'm not sure whether that changes things.

    Light Legends (characters with Greater Heal) ranked by defensive resources:

    1) Seraphim of Ver: 4700 (3200 Heals + 1500 Shields)
    2) Founder Champion: 3800 (2800 Heal + 1000 Shields) - Hard to say whether this merits a ban based on duration. I'd say not because its more offensively-oriented than Seraphim (7 attack cards to Seraphim's 5 w/two 100-Pierces) and Heal isn't anywhere near as efficient as Penance and Greater Heal, so there's a lot less incentive to stall with Founder Champion and more incentive to attack.
    3) Queen Aegea: 3500 (1000 Heals + 2500 Shields + 500 Counters) Iron Hide is harder to quantify because it's temporary, Light characters can play around it with defence, and users of Queen Aegea will more often than not ignore both in favour of a CC'd Corruption. Queen Aegea would make a good ban anyway because it would otherwise dominate the tournament even if it's not a duration problem due to its extra energy that it could dump into Corruption.
    4-6 (tie)) Templar: 3000 (2000 Heals + 1000 Shields) - Matches involving Templar very rarely last more than 5-10 minutes in my experience. Its deck is quite offensively oriented.
    4-6) Sage of Light: 3000 (1000 Heals + 2000 Shields) - Sage has 2 defends in place of a second Greater Heal, which is a downgrade because 2 Defends are less compact and efficient than 1 Greater Heal.
    4-6) Omni Knight: 3000 (2000 Heals + 1000 Shields) - Same as Templar, this is also the only free character with Greater Heal and its Sacrifices can further undermine its defence if they aren't discarded. Could merit a ban based on access to CC's from other elements, but its ability to get these set-up is inconsistent and other Light Legends are capable of beating it. Banning it would also put free players at a disadvantage unless other Light Legends were banned.
    7) Father Time: 2900 (1400 Heals + 1500 Shields) - A pretty non-threatening character with less defensive resources than all but one Light Legend so it's very unlikely to cause duration issues.
    8) Sentry Lord: 2500 (1000 Heals + 500 Shields + 1000 Counters) - Wouldn't be a duration problem, especially because the Counters would likely go unused. Whether Corruption could give it an unfair advantage is another question, in Sentry Lord's case it probably wouldn't because it then couldn't use its Counters and would be left with little defence. It also has less defence than Omni Knight, which itself has trouble sustaining an advantage against pure Light characters.

    Based on this information, I suggest one of the following actions:

    1) Banning Seraphim of Ver and Queen Aegea (free players can access Greater Heal via Omni Knight, no Aegea to dominate or Seraphim to stall)
    2) Banning all Light Legends except Father Time and Sentry Lord (both should be defeatable by non-Legendary Light characters accessible to free players)
    3) Banning all Light Legends (Eliminating Greater Heal entirely)

    quote:


    Greater Heal will be banned in CC entirely


    Greater Heal isn't available as a CC anyway, but Penance is and has the same 200x efficiency as Greater Heal. However, it also costs a discard, doesn't convert as much energy as Greater Heal at its efficiency, and even when the discard cost is negligible it's barely more effective than a CC'd Defend and the discard cost is often an inconvenience. It could be banned to discourage stalling, but I don't think it'd be necessary. There is also no way to distinguish native and CC'd Penances as it was introduced through CC.



    The Jop -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 20:35:14)

    I think banning both corruption and iron hide CC or setting a limit on each (1 CC per card) would have been better, though more difficult to enforce.



    The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 20:41:39)

    True, a ban of both Corruption (both native and CC so distinction isn't an issue) as well as CC Iron Hide could've worked.



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 22:19:58)

    The tournament is over... No need to talk about this. The iron hides.


    Also I most likely do a jop and not take part in the next tournament I find light characters very annoying to train to level 20 even with max boost.



    PyzchoPath -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/30/2014 22:53:44)

    I think I'll join the Light tournament, I never joined one so I think it will be a good experience for me.[:)]



    Vertigo Beast -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 3:19:56)

    I think that the total banning or Iron Hide without any restriction on Corruption made the tournament lopsided in favor of those that had the corruption CC and very heavily against those that would typically use Iron Hide CC. I think putting restrictions on both and trusting that each person involved would be honest would've been the best way to do it. With such a small community, we all kinda know each other and cheating would certainly be looked down upon. I think we're all mature enough to trust each other to do the right thing to keep it fair and fun.

    As for Light, I think TFP's notion of banning Aegea and Seraphim only is probably the best idea. Not all characters that have the ability to use Greater Heal actually have a reason to only stall/heal to lengthen the battles, plus Greater Heal is a pretty strategic card due to timing it correctly being able to get you out of some big holes, so I think just getting rid of almost all of the characters that have it would really put a damper on how fun the tournament was. Plus less banning = More creativity and more variance in characters. Although If you don't find Just banning Aegea and Seraphim to be enough, I would say use TFP's second notion of banning all the Light Legendaries other than Sentry Lord and Father Time as there really is no need to ban those characters due to timing of battles.

    @Gorillo
    You can still join w/o a lvl 20 Light Character, I don't have anything close to lvl 20 for light but I'm still gonna enter.



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 7:39:31)

    Not really it didn't come down to corruption and iron hide it came down more to taro who outclassed the other nuetral characters and easily beat the free players. With the lack of any free light characters who stand any chance of beating the ones you need sgs to rank up I think they should be banned also.

    If anything ban all healing related CC or all shield CC.



    The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 11:05:03)

    There'll probably be plenty of time to train one before the tournament starts. Anyway, hope you change your mind Gorillo it's the final element!



    Bionic Bear -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 12:08:17)

    What's the stance on normal heal CC? I only have one of those, but I would like to use it.
    In the neutral tournament, it came down to who had corruption and who didn't. People like me who had no corruption CC (or defense CC for that matter) were slowly eaten alive. Still fun, but not as fair as could be, I think.

    Anything with two greater heals, I'd say, should be banned. Players who are going to use a master rank character that has no greater heal (like myself) will be throwing sticks at a stone wall if they fight a character that has those two greater heals.
    As for things like Father Time (with one greater heal), I think that's fine.
    Really, it comes down to whether you have CC or not. That makes all the difference. Perhaps there could be an arrangement made between players to not use any CC, so that technically, if you lose, you lost because the other person played better than you did, not because they had five holy strikes and you didn't.



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 12:10:55)

    I disagree clinton made it pretty far in the tournament without CC.

    Taro just dominated the competition.

    I think darkbanex used mostly cat reflex when he was dueling also.



    clintonian -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 12:12:22)

    Although i honestly dont want any char banned in this tourney as they can still be beaten.I would say just ban Queen Aegea,Seraphim is ok to deal with tbh but i kinda understand why people would have trouble with it ban it too i guess.Aegea is the main problem though.So lemme ask from now cause bavaria zwei has 2 iron hides can it be used? cause its basically a weaker Queen Aegea.



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 12:53:09)

    They want stuff banned cause they have no free characters to beat the sgs stuff and I totally agree.



    The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 16:42:13)

    I'd prefer if non-Legends with Neutralize such as Bavaria Zwei, Bavaria, Princess Aegea, and Pikeman Commander were allowed because they provide another strategy useable by both free and paying players while being beatable by pure Light characters (unlike Queen Aegea the vast majority of the time).

    quote:


    As for things like Father Time (with one greater heal), I think that's fine. Anything with two greater heals, I'd say, should be banned. Players who are going to use a master rank character that has no greater heal (like myself) will be throwing sticks at a stone wall if they fight a character that has those two greater heals.


    Makes sense, but keep in mind that Queen Aegea also has just 1 Greater Heal but could still be as much of a stone wall as anything with 2 Greater Heals.



    PyzchoPath -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 16:50:28)

    I am hoping to make it for the Light tournament but my computer has been acting up lately, It's probably ruined.



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 17:35:42)

    I need a light character thats fast to train doesn't matter if its good or not.



    clintonian -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 17:42:07)

    love machine or bunny berserker



    The Jop -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 17:50:46)

    Love Machine. The only thing that Bunny Berserker has over it is Retribution, which you can CC.

    I think I'll join, though I don't stand a chance. The only level 20 light character I have is PALADIN and I have no light CC besides basic attacks.



    The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 22:51:12)

    Should be plenty of time to train before the tournament starts. :)



    R.chime -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (12/31/2014 23:47:40)

    good thing I trained pactoral champ to lv 20 way back, he's at least useable



    Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (1/1/2015 12:32:57)

    Y'all notice we missing a lot of dual element combos then I originally thought.

    No just light/water fire/water earth/energy earth/water light/energy fire/water fire/energy nuetral/water ice/water ice/energy ice/nuetral water/energy



    bacca2002 -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (1/1/2015 19:44:19)

    Only ban Queen Aegea. Seraphim is only defensive, 1 hour duels shoudn't be that much of a problem. Templar is offensive oriented, and the other light characters just suck. Also, ban penance cc.
    Another option is to simply ban all the paid characters, but the duels would simply actually take forever, maybe exceeding the age of the universe per duel.



    clintonian -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Tournament Feedback Thread (1/1/2015 19:53:49)

    I woud say just ban Aegea and maybe..maybe..seraphrim as it can really drag out the duel with ya everything else can be dealt with in battle even by free chars like love machine,Bavaria zwei and omni OR don't ban anything please [:)]



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