Possible reason for unenjoyment. (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 11:25:12)

Every phase has had preferred builds/strategies which I think we can all agree to be true.

However, I think what has changed in Omega in the inability to be unique/creative with builds.

It seems that their are set rules with how to build your class (with a few different build options with in each class), and if you don't follow them then your build will automatically become completely unviable.



Why is this the case?




I think this is the exact thing that makes me think of beta so highly, YES, their were "OP Builds" (Heal Loopers for instance) but you could still be creative with your own builds.

The problem with omega is you basically can't.



Even if you don't mind losing it's still beside the point, factors such as constant energy manipulation means you can't really prepare a build which automatically reduces half the fun of creating them.




I want Epicduel to return to the game where creativity and builds were endless and had to be thought hard with multiple consideration to create one.


It's kind of ironic how they add all these cores and new weapons and the game has never been less creative.




And I don't think the issue is, that people have worked out the OP builds.

I think the issue is the gameplay mechanics no longer allows for much creativity and this is why we just see repetition builds and nothing else.




If you guys have ever played hearthstone, you might realize that half of the fun is making your own deck and trying it out.

Like Epicduel, hearthstone has the obnoxious copy strategies which seem to be repeated constantly just like strength builds and focus builds in epic duel.

However the difference is you can still be successful with your own creation and creativity and that right there is what Epic Duel is now missing and why I no longer like ED.




What do you guys think?




MrBones -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 12:06:00)

What does it matter what I, or anybody, think ?

At the end of the day, the company policies and the direction the developing team chooses will determine the success of this game.
The 'free' browser web gaming market world is huge. Hundreds of new games are coming out every week and they all want a share of that market. As with any markets, consumers will decide the fate of every games.
I for one trust the market and trust the consumers to make the right choice.

I have been in and out of this forum for years. The same old threads are getting recycled over and over again.
Problems within this game like game mechanics, community, design have all been stated, debated, chewed on and spit numerous times. ALL HAVE BEEN SAID.

Here is a little story for you:
You go to the grocery store to buy one of your favorite food. You have been eating that for years and you love it. At the store you see that the company changed the packaging.
Your old familiar logo have changed, and it now says 'New Recipe And Better Flavor'. You buy it excited of course, only to find out that it is disgusting. Outraged, you write to the company to complain.
You even find a website that has a fan base for the old product. They also, are trying to push the company with mass complains and petition. The company says or do nothing.
Why have they changed the product ? Low salt is the fashion nowadays.. could it also be the 'gluten free' trend? Who cares. In the end, the company new policies do not fit you anymore.
The company have decided to cater to another market, which you are not part of. It is a business decision and it's nothing personal.

Therefore, you have two choices. Keep eating something you hate or buy another product.


What will you do ?






Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 20:03:05)

^
I would probably keep on complaining until either they do something about it.

Or until I have lost hope. (I'm still posting so I'm obviously very stubborn)


In the case of ED I don't see why they wouldn't want a version of the game that attracts more players for a longer time.

So I see no reason for them to dismiss good input/ideas forever.

Mind you they have been doing a pretty good job of it.

I think they are in a dilusional state that they have made the game better.
Some aspects maybe, but definitely not better.



JDM -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 20:44:37)

Glad to see you're still voicing out your thoughts Remorse. I still agree with pretty much everything you say. It was a lot more fun back then and much more competitive which is what i enjoyed. I realize we may never see those days again and ive slowly been getting used to the changes but i can still definitely say i'm not having as much fun anymore or feel as much invested into the game like i used to. With that being said, its still nice to know people are still trying to unfold the game into the fun, variety filled competitiveness it once was.



MrBones -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 21:11:36)

@ Remorse
Old friend, your vision and experience of the game, has an individual player, has nothing to do with the with current direction the game is heading.
Maybe the developers are seeing something in the future that we do not see. What you personally think is fun could have a totally different meaning for somebody else or the company as an entity.

It is very hard to see the 'big picture' when we have our noses glued to the window. Sometimes it's good to relax, clear our heads.. I did that as I left the forums for quite a while.
Got some fresh air. Tried others games.

In a post before Omega phase was launched, I made the following comment on the game. (You can search for it if you wish, I am too lazy)
Here is a resume;
''To me, the company is making a dramatic turn and is looking to cater to a younger audience. The game is too hard to understand and master has it is for today's kids.
Classes, builds, resistance and defense, skills, stats points, focus, agility.. Too much to swallow for an 8 year old, IF OF COURSE, this is the market they are going for.
In any cases, it is clear to me they are making the game easier to play and learn. The put 45 stats points on everything will be the norm now. Cool bling, artwork so kids can play dress up dolls will be added.''

I went on for many more lines and that same fashion. I am sure you get my point. I believe I was right back then. I still believe it is true now.

The game looks for a young players base and you are getting older!
When a kid is very young, playing 'Hungry Hungry Hippos' is hard and seems to require lots of strategy and skills. Kids quickly outgrow these kind of games and soon learn games like chess.
This game is not a 'chess' game. That stubbornness of yours trying to make it as such is a lost cause.



Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 21:36:46)

^
You could be right,

Infact I realize it's quite likely that my posts are futile.

However there is also the chance that they are looking to improve gameplay.
However they don't know how to go about it and their past efforts if anything has made it worse.

If this is the case I hope my posts either:

A) make them realise it's worse if they don't think so.
B) give them ideas to make them better.

Of coarse the other scenario is the game is heading how they want it (purposly and recognized reduction in gameplay) in which case I will give up all hope.

Honestly if this is the case I wish they would go ahead and say it so I can quit in peace.

@ JDM

Thanks for the support, it means a lot.



suboto -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 21:53:54)

With all honestly i think adding 1 passive skill unlockable at level40 only useable in jug mode would be a massive buff to the gameplay.
Possible seasonal mission that buff 1 of your equipable weapon or armor by 1 stat point permimently is another massive buff to the game seeing as tons of players would log in to get this.
to provent it getting unlimited capping it at 10 times per time this mission returns. So basicly u could raise your stat points by 10 from doing that. it would be spread out also so 1 group of players wont have 10 at once and other have none.
The overall limit on stat on gear currently is 35max on each stat prehaps allowing 40 or 45 would increase variety
and a boss win tracker

I just honestly think that would bring around 3 servers worth of players



Daph Duck -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 21:58:25)

Well, I don't know about you but if u ask me the biggest reason that this game is unenjoyable atm is the lack of Viable varieties.



suboto -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 22:12:32)

Another possible issue could be its been 2years since a cap raise generally when a cap is left that long it can get extremely boring maybe its time the cap was raised to 41 or 45 and all ranks players have made frozen and have to be earned with exp again once they get to the new cap but the ranks remained unlocked just have to get the exp to use them again.



Daph Duck -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 22:25:26)

Suboto, in case you didnt realize it has actually been 3 years since a level cap rase not 2, and I agree with u very much that is a problem causing lack of varieties we have been level 40 for Wayyy too long sticking to the same builds and that decreases viable variety :(.



Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 22:31:50)

^
I don't think the level cap is to blame for lack of variety.

If the game had good variety and gameplay.

What should happen is endless build possibilities and a changing meta everytime they release a core.


Increasing the level cap merely increases short term variety.
They need to tackle the issue at it's core and prevent bordem completely.

Look at hearthstone agian.

The gamevhas levels but means very little in terms of enjoyment and yet its variety and deck building ensures its the most successful turn based strategy on PC.



suboto -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 22:45:54)

To be honest when the cap was 35 and they announced level40 was coming i was like " sweet cant wait!" that kept me excited for 1year
When a new core comes out im like "eh kinda cool" keeps me excited for 1month
when i rank up im like " hmm 3/4 skin kinda good" keeps me excited for 2days
when 5 levels come BOOOOOOOOM everyone goes crazy and excited just think about it 5 skill points 20 stat points and 10 equipable stat points and some dmg/armor bonus.
The 5 skill points would go greatly with some skill move improvements would time out perfectly together with variety and pvp drops
if they did cap raise and skill improvements and pvp drops that would keep me excited for around 2years+



Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 23:07:29)

^

Its all well and good to excite players through offering things to accomplish (increased level cap for example).

However what the game lacks now is excitement in actually playing the game.

They need to make the actual game exciting which will offer a more permanent excitement.

TBH I think they should leave the level at 40 and change legendary ranks.
Into a ranking system like hearthstone, where you start at a high rank slowly win your way down to to number one legend with skill rather then botting NPCs.




suboto -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/4/2015 23:16:12)

to be honest ranks were a bad idea the cap raise once per year was way more exciteing because they threw epic wars and events along with them.
ranks are more of a skin and cores are just a weekly excitement.
We need something but what is the question but hmm perhaps...
the followings:
Giant EPIC INSANE HOLIDAY 2v2 monster event!?!?!
where u enter a 2v2 and could possiblely tag teamed with a player to take on a epic BEAST that drops stuff in battle.
ZOMBIE HAVIC EVENT!!?!?!?!
where zombies flood the game and u can enter 1v1 and can be matched with them and if balanced correctly u can vs in 2v2!?!
possiblely a shop only unlocked by obtaining drops from pvp
see events like those would bring in alot of players

This would be pushing the standards of epicduel events to the max and flooding the servers full of players.
Heck why not even make a evolveing achievement for killing these things in battle as well!

The shop could be filled with terror items like
Zombie bike
zombie armor
zombie weapons
zombie house iems
and even a zombie robot!?!?

And to put the iceing on the cake zombie theme layout for all to enjoy

Thats the kind of event im waiting on and why i play cause i feel this is coming for 2015 and very soon



king altoen -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 1:17:15)

255 people in server right now.. You know theirs a problem when playerbase drops from 1.6k



Mother1 -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 1:57:46)

@ King altoen

1) The winter break is over meaning the kids who had off are resting up for school as well as some adults having to go back to work/college
2) Power weekend is over
3) The gifting event is over

All of these reasons are the real reason why the player base is at this low which for now is actually normal.



Thylek Shran -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 2:11:32)

Well alot take a break after the long Frozen Fury event but the last update
that oped TaM and nerfed focus builds sure does made alot quit.

We also face the situation that we now have more pros in the game than
ever in the whole level range. New players cant competete to them and
will quit. This is a phenomenon that has a major effect on the player base
but hasnt been discussed much. Even for pros the game has become
difficult as its hard to remind all those new cores that got released in the
last year and what they do exactly. Instead making ED easier which was
the intention with Omega it has become way more difficult.



Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 2:38:02)

^
I disagree.
I don't think the game is necesarily harder.

I think it just feels this way because all you see is the same things over and over.

And these so called pros are usually just people with an unfair stat advantage that know how to successfully execute the same strategy on the same set of opponents.

When two similar builds go against each other it's always gonna seem harder because RNG becomes much more of a deciding factor.

That is the same for all turn based strategies and is why for the game to be healthy they need a decent amount of variety.





Justingbieberfangirl -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 9:08:26)

In my opinion the game is broken because of that assault bot I mean it is sooo over powered it isn't even funny ;(. IMO.



King Bling -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 11:26:35)

Thylek is more than right, the new balance for the tlm, they should have foreseen that once they do that, everyone will be running tlm str poison builds, and this will force everyone to the side of tlm since its getting more and more popular and dont mind me saying, but OP, wow had to use that again, shifting from bm to tlm, well this wasnt a balance for tlm but a disbalance to all the classes somehow, while in 1vs1 ch cannot win tlm now, totally, forcing those people to turn str tlms with poison spam as well , the new cores, the gun the health giving move and the kartherax bot all these things are ruining variety, while there was just an assault bot or infernal people have more variety , isnt it mysterious ? Well it is , all you see now is f5 with high bot damage spamming nukes or a str f5 or a complete str spamming poison or debuffs, while I have seen a lot of older videos in youtube, any build ,literally any build you made worked at least wonderful, may not win but it did quite a wonder. Well I say introduce new class.

And remorse its no use how much you whine they wont create a perfect balance no matter what.



Remorse -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 11:39:38)

^
I don't want perfect balance, I want what both you and I have been talking about.

Build variety and creativity.

Heck I wouldn't care if balance suffered a bit just to make the game more exciting.




dfo99 -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 16:12:58)

frozen fury gun > azreal gun (for 1v1 ofc)

katherax >IA (i dont care about the cyber yeti)

and the old static charge got buffed only for focus 5 players and other builds with low str, and it made the poison mass ch aparently disapear from 1v1, (for this thread this is what matter)






Satafou -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 16:35:02)

Azreal gun is much more effective than a gun which blows up when you use it's special lol... You can manipulate your opponents moves against their will with azreal gun, where as all the frozen fury gun does is blows up for some extra damage. Katherax is the most overrated thing that's ever been released in Epicduel, you're acting as if it was equivalent to the founder armor in beta/early gamma. I have Katherax and yes, it's very strong there's no denying that, but Infernal Android is just simply better. If you can delay the battle long enough (which isn't hard to do). You then have a huge nuke, if you combo that with another strong attack just before Android,your opponent could go from 80%hp to 0 depending on their build. You're also trying to act as if the static buff only affected a few, yet you can only name one build that got nerfed lol... Also don't you think making mass poison ch disappear from 1vs1 was perhaps their intention of the change? You can't just come up with theories claiming something is overpowered or something is nerfed when you can't look at it from different perspectives. So Katherax is overpowered versus strength? Well yes that's the whole purpose of the bot to counter strength builds, but is it overpowered as a whole versus every type of build? Nope... Not by a long shot, Katherax only out performs Infernal Android when it's put against strength builds or any build with over +1300hp.



dfo99 -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 18:17:03)

quote:

Azreal gun is much more effective than a gun which blows up when you use it's special lol... You can manipulate your opponents moves against their will with azreal gun, where as all the frozen fury gun does is blows up for some extra damage


maybe when the skill cores have no mana cost, today imo you are really wrong


quote:

You're also trying to act as if the static buff only affected a few, yet you can only name one build that got nerfed lol... Also don't you think making mass poison ch disappear from 1vs1 was perhaps their intention of the change?


this change nerf all ch str builds because it now gives more mana than damage and ofc become blockable, gives more mana than dmg made the str chs more vulnerable to mana drainers and made the energy parasite more effetive against chs.


quote:

rest of the text


ok, i will explain it better,

IA > katherax in an focus 5 vs focus 5 match without luck factor involved, but for all other effects the katherax is better than IA, because the special attack if used at the correct time this cannot be avoided (even against f5 vs f5 it can be the diference between win or lose), the katherax block the active core of sword (also usefull against focus 5 players) and ofc 40 dmg points more, deflectable primary and unblocable special attack dmg, in other words: katherax overhall > IA overhall

backing to original remorse post, which in my fisrt post i say that the cause of the problem is the lack of skills to be creative, and the reason maybe is intentional for made the equipament more interesting, and you say that they are not p2w, i reply saying that they is p2w because the new releases is even better than before equips, you said that they are not, but if the katherax is the most powerful bot of this game then you are wrong and the discurssion is over, because the katherax is a best version on bunny bot, if you will say (and probably will) that the katherax is not a better version of bunny bot, it still is better than all other bots released, anyway you is wrong. i hope that this finish this discursion.



Satafou -> RE: Possible reason for unenjoyment. (1/5/2015 18:56:20)

So let me get this straight, you think static received an overall nerf because it nerfed all strength builds despite it buffing every other possible type of build. For cyber hunter i find bm's one of the easiest match ups,if anything i'd say cyber counters blood mages kit in general. Cyber hunter is a higher skilled tier class,perhaps you only find cyber hunter so terribly weak because of your lack of experience,(which from your posts i believe i'm quite right to assume that is indeed the case). The Azreal gun is by far stronger than a gun that explodes after you use it. You gain maybe 50 damage on average sacrificing your gun for the entire remainder of the battle,where as the azreal gun with in combination with the Infernal Android could prevent your opponent from healing whilst you deal more damage for your opponent to then strike you so even if you're at 95%ish rage you can still do an Infernal Android special rage and k.o your opponent? Azreal's will can also be used to mess up your opponents skill order, many players today, especially those whom copy builds use the same repeat combination when in PVP. If you use Azreal's will during that battle your opponent will then have to think for themselves which for many ED players just seems unbearable. Also 40 damage really isn't a lot if it's once every 4 turns. Andriods nuke makes up for it by far. As a fairly low ranked player, i've managed to beat max ranked players in a 5 focus vs 5 focus. As a result of that i am losing out on a lot of stats since 5 focus essentially uses everything where as str builds only need rank 40 to reach their full power. This is actually mainly players who do use the katherax robot. Android just does it's job as a damage robot a lot better than katherax because really katherax as strong as it is, it's designed for anti strength. It wasn't designed to be the strongest brawler bot and quite frankly it isn't. Also i think everyone can agree that you using the bunny bot as an example is just pathetic as we all know how useless that bot is. Even the assault bot is better than the bunny bot.

Also to be on topic. A greater variety of cores won't necessarily bring back the fun Epicduel once had. There is actually alot of cores out there,but people are picky with cores. People want power,people want to win. So even if they did add more cores with unique effects, unless those effects could potentially be game changing people would just simply not bother buying them.



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