The option of making losses visible (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 7:50:53)

It is just as the title says. The original reason for them taking away loses was because of the harassment many players got in the past due to this.

However now that we have a mute button that can work in battle I believe it would be a good idea to at least give players the option of making records visible again. So those who want to show their records can, and those who don't can keep them hidden without the worry of harassment thanks to the mute button we have.

So what are your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? If either please explain why or why not.



Variation -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 8:17:00)

Completely supported. Some people take pride in their complete record and they shouldn't have to suffer because of a "harassment" issue and the many other reasons players like to argue over.

Anyways many players are gonna come here and completely disagree with this suggestion. However, it's not because it's a bad suggestion, more of an EpicDuel insecurity issue ;).

Anyways, the main argument that I've seen regarding the visibility status of losses is "harassment" which is the very thing you brought up in this thread. The thing is that shouldn't be a legitimate reason to completely destroy what some people have spent years to be able to achieve. The whole notion of "harassment, harassment" is an extremely weak argument considering players are harassed a lot more for being a varium player shall the developers remove varium also considering players are harassed over that as well? I think not. What about being harassed for having a lot of wins? Should wins get removed? These are just basic examples that show the idea of a "harassment" issue for hiding losses is pretty weak. Also lets not forget the in-game report system, and the player ignore system (also the mute public chat, but is rarely needed for issues regarding "harassment") I see no reason at all why this shouldn't be implemented, and the main argument against this idea is extremely weak ("harassment" which by the way, is way worse for high ranking players/varium players/heavy varium spenders, etc.)

EDIT: Just to add, the developers didn't mention a thing about harassment in the design notes post regarding the visibility of losses. However, people believe harassment was the main reason(so that's main argument with the whole loss visibility issue)--despite it not being mentioned in the design notes post (even though all of the reasons were very illogical considering this is a PvP game).

Also it really has had a harsh effect on the 2v2 battle mode. I do realize that there were always people who never tried, but post loss visibility change I'm getting partners with the most ridiculous builds. It's typical that they don't care at this point because no one can see their losses, but for the players who take PvP serious it's disgusting. I don't care if people do crazy crap like bot in 1v1/jugg or use retarded builds in 1v1/jugg, but coming into a team battle mode with that nonsense is pathetic. I never had to deal with so much of these cases until losses were hidden.

While this suggestion wouldn't completely revert the changes considering players would have an option to show losses, it does show some of the benefits this game had when losses showed. The general game play has declined, so much people just don't even try anymore. They'd rather use suicidal builds and exploit fast rewards because from a public standpoint there is no consequence for those players (this is of course assuming the player isn't botting *reference to no consequence*)

Another important thing to add is the fact that the overall change was done in this era where we have an extremely small player base. This would've never, ever happened in Beta/Gamma/Delta where most were competing to be the best of the best -- hence the need for visible win percentages and losses.



Remorse -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 10:50:18)

Supported.

It may also have the benefit of reducing potential botters.



Drianx -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 11:06:32)

Not supported.
The mute chat button is only an excuse for unhiding losses, not a positive, constructive reason to do it.
The game has no real benefit from showing losses.
The only benefit would be for some to feed their egos, while many others will be frustrated.
And those who will decide to hide them are likely to become targets for harassment anyway.
The only way I could support this would be making again NPC wins count as 1v1 wins, in order to give everyone the chance of improving their ratios.



suboto -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 11:22:08)

Supported cause this was more damageing then any good removeing it from being visable because now theres really no reason to try and all the people who do work hard for that good kdr cant show it off and i feel that is damageing



Remorse -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 11:55:47)

@Drianx
Feeding egos is the whole point of role playing games, and I wager its hard to find a better motivator.

There are also multiple benefits for having visable loses.

For starters if people are more conscious of their ratio then they are less likely to bot.

It also lowers the popularity of quick kill builds for more slow ones adding more variety to the game.

Explain to me a benefit of hiding them persides the harassment argument if you will.

And also adding NPCs to the record will just make it fake and meaningless and you might as well not have it at all if this is the case.

Though I do realise a lot of players have fake records thanks to NPCs in the past. That damage can't be easily undone however.



Variation -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 12:12:21)

@Drianx: No benefit? EpicDuel is a PvP game the last time I checked and your losses when compared with your wins is a pure indicator of how good you are, so there goes the benefit that you see in most PvP games. Players can argue until they're blue in the face about "flavor of the month/sheep builds," but the best players don't even use them unless they designed them and still get amazing win percentages.

Also your condition to support the idea is crazy. NPCs were removed because the developers (way too late for that) didn't want players running around with win percentages that didn't reflect their skill level. Adding them back (not implementing them into PvP, but actual complete control to fight them at your leisure) would go against that. Also just because some players have bad ratios doesn't mean that the players who have good win ratios should suffer, that's crazy.

For every winner there is a loser, that's life. The fact that so much players want to play as a victim 24/7 in the EpicDuel community is tearing this game apart.


EDIT: Just additional details, apparently this idea was "vetoed." However, I've never seen official and by official I mean the people most involved in the decision making of the game, the EpicDuel developers give any input on it. I guess invisible losses are the least of their worries at the time.

quote:

Supported cause this was more damageing then any good removeing it from being visable because now theres really no reason to try...

Exactly and I addressed that because it's a serious issue.

quote:

They'd rather use suicidal builds and exploit fast rewards because from a public standpoint there is no consequence for those players (this is of course assuming the player isn't botting *reference to no consequence*)

Like I implied ^^^ look at it from a public standpoint they have no consequence for not trying... Honestly I don't care if they don't try in 1v1 or jugg, but the fact is this change has caused more people to use joke builds in 2v2 and yes they're getting away with it because they're playing it out, however it's quite apparent that they know they'll lose many, many matches and piss off a lot of their partners.



The berserker killer -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 12:44:40)

supported, its not like you HAVE to show your losses. if you don't want to then don't click the button. this is just an option to make all people happy



Satafou -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/6/2015 15:58:06)

Thoroughly supported, 2 vs 2 players can no longer tell if their partner needs their guidance or not. This drastically affects the battle mode as 2 vs 2 requires intellect on not just both your opponents but also your partner as well. Win ratio's were apparently removed because of cyber bullying, yet this still nevertheless happens. People still get called noobs, and cussed at and they now have no defense for putting those cyber bullies in their righteous place as they can no longer contradict them by proving their win ratio is far superior. Win ratio's especially for 2 vs 2 for 1 vs 1 this case was arguable, they showed how good a player was. If someone can show a clear indicator they are better than someone then what is wrong with that? If anything have a bad ratio should only motivate those people to get better at the game and learn more things as a player. We also now face the situation where people on the all time leader boards with 64% look better than those with 85% as they simply have more wins. Win ratio's is the key factor for every single PVP game and so with it being removed it just makes Epicduel look bad. I mean has this games community really gotten so young that people get offended if they have a bad win ratio, when that is entirely in their own control? Quite frankly it just looks embarrassing for Epicduel, "Sorry we had to remove win ratio's becuase people got offended when people said they sucked because they had a 50% 2 vs 2 ratio". Do you realize how silly that sounds? Not to mention the removal of win ratio's didn't even take into consideration to those who did have high win ratio's would feel if suddenly all their hard work would just vanish. It made every single high ratio player feel as ripped of as every single player who had enchantments felt. Also lets create a scenario: Person X has a degree and work experience related to a field, Person Y has no degree or experience to that same field should the person X have to suffer because his "peer" didn't want to try to have a higher chance to get the job? Removing win ratio's was a big mistake and it's only fitting that they would get re-implemented into the game.



lampur1 -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 16:53:12)

The only annoying part i have on showing off kda is that some ppl will find you terrible even tho you may have been scammed (i actuly was scammed.in the beginning of omega) yea i know my fault and all but due to that scamm my kda went from 3200 wins 3230 loses about those numbers i had an3350 wins 3940 loses. And by this point its 3673 wins 4200 lossesd after i got all my items back i was



Zeruphantom -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 17:01:49)

quote:

And those who will decide to hide them are likely to become targets for harassment anyway.


Precisely. People will begin to prey upon those who choose to keep their losses hidden because it's a matter of confidence; whether you're willing to show your losses or not. A person with a bad loss ratio is likely to keep it hidden, however he will be called a "noob" anyway, especially from those with a blatantly rude ego that doesn't reflect well on the rest of the community.



Mother1 -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 17:07:48)

@ Zeruphantom

Which is why they can use the all powerful mute button so they don't have to see it. I was originally against showing loses as well for the same reason due to their being no mute button. However now that we have one that works in battle, you can use it and enjoy the battle without seeing the offensive language.



Zeruphantom -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 17:16:12)

^ Fair point, I keep forgetting about the mute button [&:]



The berserker killer -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 17:23:34)

that mute button is my best friend



Mother1 -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 18:59:07)

@ Zeruphantom

I brought this suggestion up because they made the mute button. I was originally against this suggestion because with the option to show loses without a mute button anyone who didn't do so would be targets for harassment.

IIRC I even mentioned that in the original post of this suggestion.



The berserker killer -> RE: The option of making losses visible (1/7/2015 19:02:24)

I don't see a problem with having the option to have your losses showing or not



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