How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (Full Version)

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Shadow7777777 -> How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/8/2015 17:33:20)

It has been proven time and time again that Legendary Ranks are, let's face it, game-breaking. However, there has yet to be a suggestion for a reasonable solution to this problem (at least in my observation). The following is that suggestion.

General:

1. Add a new achievement called "Legend." Starting at 1000 rating points, this achievement's value will increase by 100 for every 10 Legendary Ranks achieved.
(ex. Ranks 1-10; 1000 rating points, ranks 11-20; 1100 rating points, ranks 21-30; 1200 rating points, etc.)
There is no cap to the amount of rating points one can receive from this achievement, adding a small incentive to keep playing even after Rank 60.


2. Players over Rank 60 attain the status of "Epic Legend" (name subject to change). Epic Legends gain the ability to have a color-custom name and (maybe?) access to an exclusive shop. However, the items in the Epic Legend shop are only for aesthetic appeal/bragging rights. These items have no exclusive cores.



Battle Advantages:


Option 1: Bonuses Only

This is the most simple option, most resembling the Legendary Ranks we have today.

Primary:
Decreases your target's chance to block your strike by 0.5% per point.
Only affects regular strike. Does not apply to melee-based skills or cores such as Bludgeon or Hatchling Rush

Gun:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your sidearm by 1% per point.
Only affects regular sidearm shot. Does not apply to sidearm-based cores (or future skills) such as Azrael's Will or Icy Overkill

Auxiliary:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your auxiliary by 1% per point.
Only affects regular auxiliary shot. Does not apply to auxiliary-based cores (or future skills) such as Concussion Shot or Hair Trigger

Criticals:
Decreases your target's chance to deal a critical hit by 0.5% per point.

Stuns:
Decreases your chance to be stunned by 1% per point.

Robot:
Decreases your target's chance to block or deflect your robot's attack by 1% per point.


This system does not grant an automatic win for higher ranks as the current system does, but it does drastically decrease your chances of losing due to luck. It still does provide a clear advantage for players with high Ranks, but this way, a Rank 1 has chance to defeat a Rank 60, especially if the Rank 1 has a better build, is more skilled, etc.

Note: All of these bonuses can reduce your target's like below the minimum chance. (If your target has a 5% chance to block your strike, but you have the Primary bonus, your target's chance will be reduced to 0%, not the minimum chance of 2%).



Option 2: Higher Bonuses, Added Drawbacks.

Primary:
Decreases your target's chance to block your strike by 1% per point.
Increases your target's chance to deflect your sidearm by 1% per point.
Increases your target's chance to deflect your auxiliary by 1% per point.

Secondary:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your sidearm by 2% per point.
Increases your target's chance to block your strike by 1% per point.

Auxiliary:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your auxiliary by 2% per point.
Increases your target's chance to block your strike by 1% per point.

Stuns:
Decreases your chance to be stunned by 2% per point.
Increases your target's chance to deal a critical hit 0.5% per point.

Crits:
Decreases your target's chance to deal a critical hit by 1% per point.
Increases your chance to be stunned by 1% per point.

Robot:
Decreases your target's chance to block or deflect your robot's attack by 2% per point.
Decreases damage of robot by 1 per point.

In this system, each bonus has the option to be enabled/disabled. This requires the player to really look at his or her build and decide which bonuses he or she really needs. For example, a strength user may want to activate the primary bonus, while a support user may want to activate the Auxiliary bonus. A 5-focus user must decide on whether or not he or she wants to have less damage for a much lower chance of being blocked or deflected, or have the same chance to be blocked/deflected with no damage penalty. Bonuses are highlighted in green and drawbacks in red to easily differentiate the two.


Option 3: Higher bonuses, target receives bonus as well.

Primary:
Decreases your target's chance to block your strike by 1% per point.
Decreases your chance to block your target's strike by 1% per point.

Secondary:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your sidearm by 2% per point.
Decreases your chance to deflect your target's sidearm by 2% per point.

Auxiliary:
Decreases your target's chance to deflect your auxiliary by 2% per point.
Decreases your chance to deflect your target's auxiliary by 2% per point.

Stuns:
Decreases your chance to be stunned by 2% per point.
Decreases your chance to stun your target by 2% per point.

Crits:
Decreases your target's chance to deal a critical hit by 1% per point.
Decreases your chance to deal a critical hit by 1% per point.

Robot:
Decreases your target's chance to block or deflect your robot's attack by 2% per point.
Decreases your chance to block or deflect your opponent's robot's attack by 2% per point.

Like the previous system, each bonus has the option to be enabled/disabled. This system seems inherently useless, seeing as your target receives the bonus as well; however, this system is perhaps the most powerful of the three. For example, a strength user can activate the Primary and Secondary bonuses, and if his or her target is anything but a STR user, then the STR user has a large advantage, considering that most of his or her attacks are Primary/Secondary attacks. The same applies to support builds and robot builds with the Auxiliary bonus and the Robot bonus, respectively.


Also, possibly decrease the price of each legendary point by 5-10k credits and refund already-bought legendary points accordingly (to prevent another enhancement-like rage among high-ranked legendary players).

Furthermore, implement higher battle rewards for when players of lower ranks win against higher-ranked players. Credit to Lord Machaar for suggestion.

Overall, I believe this is a reasonable solution to the Ranks problem. While high-ranked players do indeed lose most of their battle advantage, they still retain a good bonus and will lose considerably less due to "lucky BS." Furthermore, Legendary players receive an achievement and an exclusive shop to hopefully compensate for the loss of free wins against anyone 20 or more ranks lower than them.


Will this balance the rift between lower and higher ranked legendary players? Have a suggestion of your own? Please post your thoughts below! [:)]

EDIT: Considering the fact that this thread was deleted before, I have been forced to set a few guidelines for those of you who wish to comment. Firstly, all feedback should be constructive. Please do not go off-topic. Furthermore, if you disagree with my suggestions, please explain your reasoning behind your ideas and why my ideas would be detrimental to the game. Most importantly, DO NOT FLAME EACH OTHER. I would like to keep this thread civil, and again, ON TOPIC. I truly believe that this is the most important issue in the game that must be dealt with ASAP. I would like to keep this thread open, so please stay on topic, be constructive, and do not flame one another. Thank you. ^_^




DeathGuard -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/8/2015 23:16:38)

" for lack of better terms (acronyms?) OP AF"
You should remove that acronym. It is forbidden. Might as well read the Forum Section Rules.

As for feedback, I will come back later to edit the post with some suggestions myself.




The berserker killer -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/8/2015 23:21:28)

JUST GO NPC AND GET RANKS AND STOP COMPLAINING. EVERYTHING IS SO STRAIGHTFORWARD, FAIR AND ACCESSIBLE TOO ALL PLAYERS NOW.

EDIT: had caps button on, soz




Mother1 -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/8/2015 23:44:33)

I said it before in the old thread and I will say it again.

In a game ruled by luck the last thing we need to do with ranks is change them from straight forward to luck based bonus. We already have RNG trolling players to the point where they want it all removed.

While I agree the effects of ranks with such a small player base has caused a lot of friction with many players buffing luck in any shape or form would upset players more than make them even more unhappy.

@ the Berseker killer

As I said in the Legendary thread in the general section Not everyone has the same time as everyone else. Cause if this was the case and everyone was the same than the game wouldn't be in the horrid state it is in now.




The berserker killer -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/8/2015 23:55:17)

its not horrid, its just boring. and in that case the problem is not th game but rather your time which is, in fact, your problem (not you, but the subject person)




Dual Thrusters -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 0:07:38)

Currently, all ranks do is strictly alter basic damage. I believe that ranks should instead give more versatility. That being said, builds that are based around basic damage boost such as 5 focus builds are affected the most. Players should be able to more clearly alter their builds based on ranks, or even alter their ranks based on their builds.

If there was another way to implement a system with basic damage boosts, weapons could have ranks that you need to seperately level up....but hey, I'm getting way too ahead of myself :/




Therril Oreb -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 0:42:37)

Maybe, instead of repeating yourself over and over saying ranks do (not) matter, giving actual feedback saying how it could be improved would be more helpful both for the OP and the staff.
It is a common recurring problem here to complain without trying to give a solution yourself.

I gave permission for the thread to return after it went up into flames hoping that people would give feedback to Shadow7777777 and his balance to ranks suggestion.
Yet nobody has even tried it, so I will ask one more final time.

Stay on-topic, either give feedback to this balance suggestion or give a suggestion for ranks yourself. But do not ignore the OP and use this thread as an excuse to complain for those get removed on sight.




Qwerty Again -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 0:47:45)

While Ghost god is right, these ranks are easily accessible (pretty easy to get imo just takes some time roughly took a year for me to get to rank 40) it is actually quite boring to get. While you may say that boring is subjective it is stil nonetheless boring, which no one likes to feel bored. I do not support the luck stats since luck is fun at the start but after a while gets old and makes people angry as we always see bad over good. I think we should cap legendary ranks to alter stats up to lets say level 40 (one year of farming for a little bit stronger is fine IMO) but for the next 60 ranks unlock accessory and more objective stuff like armors, hairstyles, Custom colors for accessories (<--- me gusta mucho :D) or maybe stuff like credit boosts or price reductions.




Remorse -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 2:42:14)

@Shadow

Love the ideas and support all of them especially the last two options.

Another possible way to change legendary ranks could be to make it into a ranking system rather then a battle advantage where by all level 40s are placed into a ladder and winning or losing versus other level 40s will place you higher or lower accordingly as well giving you a better title/achievement.

I would prefer if legendary ranks wasn't anything to do with simple experiance making it abusable through NPC scripting, and instead be a represenatation of skill.









Shadow7777777 -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 9:22:48)


@Mother1
I believe you have misunderstood my post. My suggestions do not buff luck in any way, in fact, they do the opposite. Think of it as Sidearm/Auxiliary Mastery vs. Aim Assist. While (I think) you interpreted my suggestions to work like Mastery, in which your chance of landing a critical hit is improved, in reality, my suggestions work like Aim Assist, in which the chance of YOUR weapon has a DECREASED chance of being deflected (by your target).

@Remorse
Thank you for the support! :)

Your idea have been a much better system for Legendary Ranks had they not been implemented yet. Unfortunately, it is already too late. Too many players are high-ranked and essentially having all of their "work" stripped away would cause a massive uproar and overall would be detrimental to the life of the game. Though if there was a way to implement your idea while fairly compensating the already high-ranked players...that would be interesting indeed. ;)




Remorse -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 11:19:16)

^Very true,

The sad thing is though, if you dig deep enough you will find me saying the exact same thing when they first mentioned legendary ranks.


I also mentioned that they will only have a small wisdom of opportunity to not make this feature as it is or it will be a big hard to reverse mistake....





Lord Machaar -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/9/2015 11:52:08)

As I have stated in the last same post. I like the second option. But as you and many including me have stated it's too late to revamp the ranking system itself.

What can be done it is to acknowledge that ranks give an advantage. Where as you can see now for them a rank 1 = rank 60. Higher rewards. Put ranks in the equation. This way things will improve.
Sitting there doing nothing since the release of this "Broken" system will just bring the game down the hill.




doomkiller98 -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/18/2015 23:44:26)

The whole idea of legendary ranks is absolutely garbage, and needs to be thrown out the window. I'm saying that only being level 38 and can tell that its not good for the game.

~Doom.

Bring us back to delta!!!!!!!!!!!!




Xendran -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/19/2015 6:23:23)

We tried convincing them to revamp legendary ranks a year ago and got 100% support, but absolutely nothing changed.
I wouldn't expect any changes to the legendary system, probably ever.




Lord Machaar -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/19/2015 13:17:20)

That's I have to agree with. It's too to late to "revamp" the system anyways, the only thing that are still possible to do are some "superficial" tweaks & modifications. If they think that legendary system is perfect, what I suggest is, devs should acknowledge that ranks give an advantage, therefore when a higher rank faces a lower rank, normaly if lower rank players wins, out of logic, that player deserves better rewards. That was an example of a tweak, that undirectly balances this system, those tweaks tend to satisfy one part but it doesn't do the opposite to another part, which normaly a total revamp would do. Sure removal of enhancements event was a thing, but that doesn't mean that it's same case for legendary rankong system.




Shadow7777777 -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/27/2015 21:56:34)

"Bump." Added @Lord Machaar's reward system to post. Though this may be for a futile cause, especially considering the previous "balance update" [:(]

In another three months, perhaps? :/




Lord Machaar -> RE: How to Balance Legendary Ranks RE-POST *NO FLAMING* (2/28/2015 4:53:31)

Frankly I don't think this ranking system will be ever balanced. For the simple reason that it a serves a beneficial purpose for devs, if an "X" player rank 50 using a promo weapon, and the promo weapon is pretty OP, you can't blame the promo but the ranks, so actually when you reach level 40 rank 5 for example, you can't really know if the problem is in:
- Ranks.
- Balance.
as both of them are imbalanced, both of them serves a good reason, hiding the fact that some promos are OP.

P.S: When I mean promo weapons, I don't mean 10k var packs but all previous promo weapons that are in-game/coming soon (azrael's gun..etc..)




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