RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (Full Version)

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admahu -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 15:32:53)

I don't see how changing WIS would affect new players at all actually. Unless they all just dumped all their stats into WIS early on for some reason. Like you said, before they would just dump stuff into STR, now they will too and get by the same.

For shops, this is DF, not AQ. 99% of your equips are supposed to come from quest drops. [:)] So yeah, who knows if gold costs are high, I literally never have anything to spend it on.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 16:37:11)

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Does anybody remember those quesrs that ash in falconreach give? The one with specific levels beside them? I think the difficulty of it now doesn't really justify the rewards. In the previous version of the game, sure, but not so much now. That goes also for the various items yulgar and serenity sell that isn't the player suggestion shop pretty much any quest made back when the game was just starting like robina and warlic's area.

What rewards are you talking about?

Item drops? They are already rewarding plenty of items.

Exp? They're rewarding the amount they should be. Are you asking us to make every quest a farming spot and take any time investment out of the game?

Gold? Gold is pointless and useless for almost everything but training stats. We have to MAKE gold sinks or people would be running around with billions of gold with nothing to spend it on because there really isn't anything worthwhile to spend it on sub level 50ish. Yes, a Doom Weapon and maybe the Toddler dragon, but really after that what else really is there that a low level player NEEDS. Not wants, NEEDS. Zip.

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With complaints about the WIS nerf, I have to ask. Was the MP cost for skills increased after the release of the WIS stat? Or is everyone just spoiled now and don't remember that MP used to be tied to INT and warriors and rogues didn't get huge gains.... and the game was still fine? More specifically for KA and DmK, which came out before WIS. (KA definitely, idk about DmK)

No, the MP cost for skills were not increased at all. Players got used to just spamming everything whenever they wanted, however they wanted, with no thought to anything.

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2) i'll be honest that i have no idea if the price of items is high or low because i just farm at catapults at any war, so i'm pretty rich and i think we need a big 1kk weapon or something like it because i don't have anything to spend money on, that said... have you introduced your friend to ballyhoo? it's the best farming spot in the game IMO, the gold given is pretty good, it's pretty quick, you can just switch tabs during the ad and it can even give DC

What are you spending gold on in the first place besides stats? Please, tell me because most of the items you get are drops like admahu said. If the cost to train STATS at a low level is out of the price range of an average player then I can take a look at redoing them, but item costs are really pointless and are there just to get rid of the excess gold you build up just doing normal stuff. There might also be an issue where you're destroying drops you don't need instead of selling them. That's something you can do to mitigate the stat costs since that's what you're supposed to be doing with them.

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3) as for the quests for low levels... i don't really think they are too hard, most of those quests have a healing pad available, so HP/MP is not a worry, and the potions are usually good enough to cover the dmg of the enemies

People could try using the stun, or shield, or any other skills that limit the foe instead of a mindset of "I HAVE TO KILL THIS THING IN ONE TURN OR IT TAKES TOO LONG AND I HATE IT!" You know, how an RPG is meant to be played, using your skills and actually thinking a little bit. Taking 3 turns to stun your foe, use your final, and then possibly having to clean up with a secondary attack isn't the end of the world. No quest is "hard" in normal play if you just use your skills.

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4) lastly, the quest rewards from book 1 ash are kinda outdated, so i don't think it's worth doing those quests at all... that said, one might wonder if that shouldn't actually be changed when the staff has time, since you're at the beginning of the game, one of the first quest givers outside of oaklore is ash, getting bad rewards because standards changed when you are just starting to suddenly find an up to date quest that smashes you can be quite bad (note that i'm not sure if this actually happens, i'm judging without going out with a low level to confirm my points, so i could be completely wrong here)

Again, WHAT rewards are you referring to? No one has given a realistic reason why they aren't "rewarding" or even explained what they mean or why they should be beyond "well it's the first quests the player sees!" Not really, no. The first quests the player sees are the ones in the BoL that pops up when he/she logs in. What do you all mean by "rewarding" in terms of what a low level player should be getting? If it's 12,000 gold a run and a perfect weapon, try again.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 17:01:11)

To be fair, I think older quest drops (weapons and accessories in general) are very, very outdated, with really sub-par stats, or stats that were good, but are now unbalanced because of the recent change in how stats work. Of course, this all becomes less of an issue around level 20/25, when better items become available.

Plus, it's kind of a moot point since Ash still has to do the whole "item stats rework", which will solve this issue.



dragon_monster -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 17:29:06)

Okay what is with this acceptance that gold is useless which I agree but it should not be like that gold should have more uses what was it made for anyway?



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 17:29:19)

In what way are they sub-par? What does a < level 15 player need stat wise?

Is it because Crit is now rounded down? That really means almost nothing at that level bracket.

Is it the lack of Wis? Yes that will get fixed when I have enough time.

Is it a low amount of Str/Dex/Int? That's on purpose.

Is it a low amount of Cha/Luk? That's also on purpose.

What stats are "sub-par" that need changing that ruin low level player play?

dragon_monster - Alright, first off can you please use punctuation? It's really hard to read some of your posts when you make run-on sentences like that.

As for the gold issue, it's too late now to fix it. That needed to be done before we got to 1200+ quests where most don't have a "drop shop" like AQ does. DF was built on the foundation of random drops from quests, not from buying items from shops. We now offer more shops but the main intent of the game, and which it is still operating under because we can't change that now, is random drops. Gold will never be able to hold a place like in AQ because it was never meant to hold one like that in DF and we're past the point of no return to totally change how the system works now.



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 18:29:53)

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2) i'll be honest that i have no idea if the price of items is high or low because i just farm at catapults at any war, so i'm pretty rich and i think we need a big 1kk weapon or something like it because i don't have anything to spend money on, that said... have you introduced your friend to ballyhoo? it's the best farming spot in the game IMO, the gold given is pretty good, it's pretty quick, you can just switch tabs during the ad and it can even give DC
What are you spending gold on in the first place besides stats? Please, tell me because most of the items you get are drops like admahu said. If the cost to train STATS at a low level is out of the price range of an average player then I can take a look at redoing them, but item costs are really pointless and are there just to get rid of the excess gold you build up just doing normal stuff. There might also be an issue where you're destroying drops you don't need instead of selling them. That's something you can do to mitigate the stat costs since that's what you're supposed to be doing with them.
as i said in my post, in nothing, i have nothing to spend gold on, which is why i said i had no idea if items had a high price or if they did not, no idea why you quoted me here
quote:

People could try using the stun, or shield, or any other skills that limit the foe instead of a mindset of "I HAVE TO KILL THIS THING IN ONE TURN OR IT TAKES TOO LONG AND I HATE IT!" You know, how an RPG is meant to be played, using your skills and actually thinking a little bit. Taking 3 turns to stun your foe, use your final, and then possibly having to clean up with a secondary attack isn't the end of the world. No quest is "hard" in normal play if you just use your skills.
AGREED! no idea why you quoted me here too, but i totally agree with your point here
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Again, WHAT rewards are you referring to? No one has given a realistic reason why they aren't "rewarding" or even explained what they mean or why they should be beyond "well it's the first quests the player sees!" Not really, no. The first quests the player sees are the ones in the BoL that pops up when he/she logs in. What do you all mean by "rewarding" in terms of what a low level player should be getting? If it's 12,000 gold a run and a perfect weapon, try again.
on this one, i'm referring to the drop rewards, once again, i'm not sure if this points stands, but i think the drop rewards from the quests gave by ash in falconreach are weaker than a weapon of that level should be, i have NOT done any comparison between those weapons and more recent ones, so i could be wrong in that, also the "well it's the first quests the player sees!" was not really said, what i said was that ash was "one of the first quest givers outside of oaklore" , since he is right in the middle of falconreach, which is why i said that IF the rewards are underpowered they should receive a proper buff to become up to the current standards weapons of those levels should be

that said, David's does make a pretty good point with the
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Plus, it's kind of a moot point since Ash still has to do the whole "item stats rework", which will solve this issue.
so, if the issue exists, it will be solved when the rework is made, i only think that, when the rework starts, ash's quests should be one of the first places to receive a proper revamp

edit: oh, and on the gold having almost no use thing... well i have no idea what is sold on the shops on lore since i've never paid any attention to those, but i guess that, with time, other shops could be made that sell weapons of appropriate level without the player having to try and get a drop for their level in a quest (lore replicas is already a good example of a shop like this, i don't know if there are others, if there are not, with time, since it's by no means a pressing issue, there could be other shops around to sell a few weapons), it's good for people that are too lazy to farm

@below. oh, i see, guess all that makes sense, good to know!



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/5/2015 18:46:33)

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no idea why you quoted me here

In those cases it was because I was giving a general answer on the first and agreeing with you and expanding on it on the second.

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on this one, i'm referring to the drop rewards, once again, i'm not sure if this points stands, but i think the drop rewards from the quests gave by ash in falconreach are weaker than a weapon of that level should be, i have NOT done any comparison between those weapons and more recent ones, so i could be wrong in that, also the "well it's the first quests the player sees!" was not really said, what i said was that ash was "one of the first quest givers outside of oaklore" , since he is right in the middle of falconreach, which is why i said that IF the rewards are underpowered they should receive a proper buff to become up to the current standards weapons of those levels should be

That's the thing though. For the level range they are at they're fine. The issue comes in when you're moving from playing a level 60+ character to a level 9 character. The weapons feel weak and look weak when they aren't actually weak for a level 9 character. There's also a difference in stating a holiday weapon, a perm shop weapon, and a drop weapon and all THAT varies based on the level range they are at. No two weapons are ever going to be the same because each is a different item. I can try and standardize them and make certain levels have at least a certain amount of Wis or End or Str or what have you, but each weapon is going to have to be looked at individually for where it is, what it is, what it's supposed to be, and how it's currently stated. That means a level 7 drop weapon isn't going to be comparable to a level 7 holiday weapon. This might also be where some players are having an issue seeing differences since they're used to their fun seasonal or special items and not normal drops which most players on the forums don't use all that often unless we min/max the stats somehow to fill a gap until a holiday comes around and they get a weapon they know is coming.

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well i have no idea what is sold on the shops on lore since i've never paid any attention to those, but i guess that, with time, other shops could be made that sell weapons of appropriate level without the player having to try and get a drop for their level in a quest (lore replicas is already a good example of a shop like this, i don't know if there are others, if there are not, with time, since it's by no means a pressing issue, there could be other shops around to sell a few weapons), it's good for people that are too lazy to farm

They're going to have to farm one way or another though. They'll either need to do the RNG to get a drop or farm to get the gold which they should be getting as it is by selling the drops they don't need. Yes it could fill some gaps but it's a filler and not how the game was originally intended to be played.



Siedgrief -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/6/2015 0:25:10)

Ash, this may be a noob question but i dont have clear someting, the damage of Pierce attacks only gets bonus from DEX right? it donst matter if the pierce dmg is from a skill or normal attack. I mean with ranger class, the attack with the bow does pierce dmg, even when i use a sword, so if my stats are lets say 200str and 0 dex, those pierce attacks dont get dmg bonus right?

I know that before the stat changes pierce was only getting bonus from DEX, so i wanna be sure if it is like before or not.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/6/2015 9:43:41)

That didn't change with the stat changes. The only things that changed were how much the stats gave in terms of bonus damage.

Str = Melee
Dex = Pierce
Int = Magic



sweetladyamy -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (9/29/2015 1:54:27)

Hmmm...as for me, I decided to untrain all my stats and retrain them to where my Dexterity is more prevalent (I am a Rogue), and overall, I've found little difference.

I'm slow in leveling up, and there are times when I do get my arse kicked (nothing unusual there either), but it is good that the game is being improved upon, that shows devotion more than anything to me and that I respect above all.

Keep up the good work.



GladiLord -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (10/7/2015 12:00:10)

Actually, this state changes are midly interesting, at least. [8|]

The Luck Stat is more than welcome at my arsenal, as well the Charisma.

HOWEVER... the fact that the level cap of the game still mainains at 80 drives me still insane, due the fact that we can only hope to train only 1 stat at its full maximum (200 points).

My sugestion? Try to, at least, revising that from lv cap, if it's really worth to raise it, at maximum, lv.90

Thanks for your patience into reading this.



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